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Kass
Joined: 23 Mar 2007
Posts: 722
Location: under a cockatiel
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LisaW
Joined: 05 Apr 2007
Posts: 173
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 Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 3:38 pm Post subject: Re: My Governor Arrested! |
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OH, hey -- it's better than those 2!
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Illinois' reputation for corruption is well-documented. Nine men have served as governor in the past 50 years. Two — Democrat Otto Kerner and Republican George Ryan — were convicted of crimes they committed while in office. (Ryan is appealing his conviction.) Democrat Dan Walker also was imprisoned after he left office, but for crimes unconnected to his tenure as governor. And Republican William Stratton was indicted for tax evasion in connection to his use of campaign funds, but he was ultimately acquitted.
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http://illinoisissues.uis.edu/features/2007jan/elect.html
Ah -- Illinois / Chicago politics ... coming to a White House near you Soon!
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Sterling_95
Joined: 04 Oct 2008
Posts: 212
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| Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 4:20 pm Post subject: |
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And Blagojevich recently tried to get Ryan acquitted of the charges against him. That's the first and only time that he's shown some decent vision. I've long since become inured to his corruption and incompetency - the only thing I'm shocked at is that he was so stupid about it. If you're going to grease palms right and left, make sure you don't leave a trail
I guess I know why Chicago has a sales tax rate of 10.25% and climbing - our poor deprived governor needs more money. |
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Kass
Joined: 23 Mar 2007
Posts: 722
Location: under a cockatiel
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| Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 4:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I guess I know why Chicago has a sales tax rate of 10.25% and climbing - our poor deprived governor needs more money. |
Actually, I hear it's because Mayor Daley's freaking insane and the state won't fund anything, but I'm sure there are lots of other reasons, too.
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LisaW
Joined: 05 Apr 2007
Posts: 173
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| Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 6:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Sterling_95 wrote: |
I guess I know why Chicago has a sales tax rate of 10.25% and climbing - our poor deprived governor needs more money. |
That's CHICAGO's tax, not the STATE's. With the high salaries paid to Chicago city workers and the rest of the Gimmes, Chicago has to tax everything and as high as it can.
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"The White House isn't the place to learn how to deal with international crisis, the balance of power, war and peace, the economic future of the next generation." --- Joe Biden, 1988 |
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Sterling_95
Joined: 04 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 6:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Kass wrote: |
Actually, I hear it's because Mayor Daley's freaking insane and the state won't fund anything, but I'm sure there are lots of other reasons, too. |
Yes, maybe Daley saw another vicious, threatening airfield that needed bulldozing in the middle of the night :)
| Quote: | | That's CHICAGO's tax, not the STATE's. With the high salaries paid to Chicago city workers and the rest of the Gimmes, Chicago has to tax everything and as high as it can. |
I stand corrected, but if it's only Chicago, i wonder what's going on here? I bought a meal in Bolingbrook in Dupage County and when I looked at my receipt, the tax rate was 10%. The only thing I can think of is that they're taxing fast food at a higher rate. Which of course, will hit the lower income brackets harder. *sigh* |
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Ellie
Joined: 27 Mar 2007
Posts: 102
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| Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 12:08 am Post subject: Re: My Governor Arrested! |
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| LisaW wrote: |
Ah -- Illinois / Chicago politics ... coming to a White House near you Soon!
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That's a leap. Especially because the Complaint actually quotes the governor cursing out Obama because Obama wouldn't take part in his scheme.
Is what you're saying that any person who hales from Illinois must be corrupt just because they're from Illinois? |
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Ellen AAR
Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 109
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| Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 6:19 am Post subject: |
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My aunt lives in New Orleans and has gone through Hurricane Camille and Katrina. She's told some hair-raising stories about Louisiana corruption. But it seems that with the election of squeaky clean Bobby Jindal and now squeaky clean Joseph Cao in place of William Jefferson, that Louisiana will lose its place in the corruption stakes.
I have a cousin who lives in Chicago. She's told some hair-raising stories too.
What is it about politics anyway? It seems to poison some people's souls. |
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Sandlynn
Joined: 23 Mar 2007
Posts: 1601
Location: Washington, D.C.
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| Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 11:54 am Post subject: |
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I have to say, I don't know much about Illinois state or local Chicago politics. But, a casual observer of politics -- especially this year, i.e., the year of Sarah Palin -- might keep in mind that all governorships are not equal. Some states have very strong governors by law, while other states give more power to the legislature. Furthermore, logic demands that we recognize that some states are more consequential than others by virtue of population, resources, size, economy, etc.
That being said, as I understand it, Illinois has a very strong governorship. Lots of patronage and power resides in the executive. As such, he or she is subject to a lot more "persuasion," "politicking," and attempted "palm greasing" than others. This doesn't excuse this or any governor's behavior. This doesn't mean he shouldn't have the moral gumption and fortitude to perform his duties ethically. But it does put into perspective the comparison as to why Illinois might be more pre-disposed to this type of thing than another state with a weak governorship.
Also, we have to keep in mind that strong governships also attract more types like Blagojevich *BECAUSE* they'll have so much power. A civic-minded, do-gooder would have a lot more competition to be governor of such a state than a state where the legislature has a great deal more power. |
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LisaW
Joined: 05 Apr 2007
Posts: 173
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| Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 4:27 pm Post subject: Re: My Governor Arrested! |
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| Ellie wrote: | | LisaW wrote: |
Ah -- Illinois / Chicago politics ... coming to a White House near you Soon!
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That's a leap. Especially because the Complaint actually quotes the governor cursing out Obama because Obama wouldn't take part in his scheme.
Is what you're saying that any person who hales from Illinois must be corrupt just because they're from Illinois? |
No, I think I was quite clear on what I meant. Barack Obama has come out of the CHICAGO political machine. And, anyone involved with the CHICAGO political machine is probably corrupt because that's how that game is played.
_________________
"The White House isn't the place to learn how to deal with international crisis, the balance of power, war and peace, the economic future of the next generation." --- Joe Biden, 1988 |
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Sandlynn
Joined: 23 Mar 2007
Posts: 1601
Location: Washington, D.C.
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| Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 4:43 pm Post subject: Re: My Governor Arrested! |
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| LisaW wrote: | | No, I think I was quite clear on what I meant. Barack Obama has come out of the CHICAGO political machine. And, anyone involved with the CHICAGO political machine is probably corrupt because that's how that game is played. |
Every politician from Chicago is probably corrupt? That's an awful lot of people whose integrity you're impugning there. |
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Kass
Joined: 23 Mar 2007
Posts: 722
Location: under a cockatiel
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| Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 1:09 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | No, I think I was quite clear on what I meant. Barack Obama has come out of the CHICAGO political machine. And, anyone involved with the CHICAGO political machine is probably corrupt because that's how that game is played. |
I think that's pure b.s., myself.
_________________
Reality has a well-known liberal bias.
My blog: http://www.thoughts.com/allergywoman/blog
http://www.shelfari.com/o1517440994 |
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Ellen AAR
Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 109
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| Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 9:26 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | No, I think I was quite clear on what I meant. Barack Obama has come out of the CHICAGO political machine. And, anyone involved with the CHICAGO political machine is probably corrupt because that's how that game is played. |
I'm praying that is not so, but I fear it is.
Sigh.
I think it is impossible to be a successful politician without selling a part of your soul. Sad. |
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Donna Lea Simpson
Joined: 23 Mar 2007
Posts: 249
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 10:39 am Post subject: |
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The inductive argument LisaW is positing:
1 - All politicians from Chicago, Illinois are corrupt.
2 - President-Elect Barack Obama is a politician from Illinois
3 - Therefore, Obama is corrupt.
Wow. Lots of holes in that one, starting with Number 1. Anyone have proof that all politicians from Chicago, Illinois are corrupt?
Until you do have proof, is it not unfair to smear someone based on a fallacious argument?
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Beth W
Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 168
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| Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 2:02 pm Post subject: |
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Heh. If you have much experience with Chicago politics, it's really NOT at all hard to believe that all Chicago politicians are corrupt (at least ones that hold any office for any length of time). It's the Chicago way.
I truly don't know if Obama is or is not. For the sake of our country, I truly hope and pray he isn't. But I think that it is a very valid question to ask and investigate given the state of Illinois politics that has been going on for decades. |
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