AAR
Click here for full forums index
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 
 
The vice presidential debate...
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    AAR Forum Index -> The Wild Wild West Forum
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Niftybergin



Joined: 27 Mar 2007
Posts: 1093

PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tee wrote:
Yes, that thought appears to be backed up by some polls that were post debate. I never considered myself an independent; but I was very, very shaky with Obama. On the other hand, there's no solace for me in the McCain strategies, either. Where I agree with him, I totally disagree in the other major areas.


This morning I took a little quiz over on ABC that was interesting. It gives you a series of 13 pairs of statements and you are supposed to select the one that most resonates with you. You have no way of knowing which is Obama's statement and which is McCain's. My results were interesting. I've always known I was a "left-leaning centrist" but the "test" confirmed it. Of the 13 statements, I picked Obama's statements 7 times, and McCain's statements the other 6. On the economy, the war in Iraq, and healthcare, I sided with both of them -- picked one of Obama's statements AND one of McCain's. On immigration, I sided with McCain both times. But on the "hot topic" issues, I sided with Obama 4 out of 5 times. Here it is, in case anyone's interested:

http://abcnews.go.com/politics/MatchoMatic/fullpage?id=5542139

Regarding Palin vs. Biden in the debate.... I'd had no real issue with Palin going into the debate, but now I'm solidly "against" her. Definitely not a fan. There was one part of the debate -- when she was chiding Biden for referencing the Bush administration and drawing a connection between Bush and McCain -- when the words "smug and condescending" flashed across my mind. I dislike her demeanor. And I really disliked how she was so arrogant about answering only the questions SHE wanted to answer. How Bush-and-Chaney-esque is that?

Biden struck me as being calm, cool, and collected. I like the fact that Obama is not as much a part of the political machine in Washington as McCain is. I like Obama's inexperience in that sense, if only because it translates in my mind (rationally or irrationally) as being less corrupt. But I also like that in Biden, Obama has a strong, experienced running mate and resource.

McCain puts me off on a visceral level, but I think it's mostly because he's a republican. I find the republican party in general to be intolerant, mean-spirited, divisive, arrogant, exclusive, and elitist. The democrats strike me as being more hopeful and more tolerant and more INclusive, which is important to me. (Random side note: I have found it telling that the majority of cars I've seen with McCain/Palin stickers are either luxury cars or humongous SUVs...sometimes luxury SUVs. The cars I've seen with Obama stickers are smaller and less expensive and the ones that tend to get better gass mileage.)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
LisaW



Joined: 05 Apr 2007
Posts: 173

PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Niftybergin wrote:


Biden struck me as being calm, cool, and collected. I like the fact that Obama is not as much a part of the political machine in Washington as McCain is. I like Obama's inexperience in that sense, if only because it translates in my mind (rationally or irrationally) as being less corrupt. But I also like that in Biden, Obama has a strong, experienced running mate and resource.


The only thing scarier than the Washing Political Machine? The Chicago Political Machine and Mr Obama is a card carrying member of it.


Niftybergin wrote:

McCain puts me off on a visceral level, but I think it's mostly because he's a republican. I find the republican party in general to be intolerant, mean-spirited, divisive, arrogant, exclusive, and elitist. The democrats strike me as being more hopeful and more tolerant and more INclusive, which is important to me. (Random side note: I have found it telling that the majority of cars I've seen with McCain/Palin stickers are either luxury cars or humongous SUVs...sometimes luxury SUVs. The cars I've seen with Obama stickers are smaller and less expensive and the ones that tend to get better gass mileage.)


Interesting. As a Conservative and a Republican, I find the Democrats to be more intolerant, mean-spirited, divisive, arrogant, exclusive and elitist. As long as I believe what the Dems believe, I'm okay. when I don't, I'm called stupid, intolerant, mean-spirited, etc. Oh, and don't forget "racist" that and "stupid" are the Dem description of choice.

As to the luxury cars and SUVs ... hmm, someone on this forum stated that there was more $$$ in the Blue States than the Red. However, the point remains, if I have the money to purchase, insure, maintain and gas-up a humongous SUVs or luxury SUV, what concern is it of yours if I drive one (actually, I'm currently driving a "Cowboy Cadillac" but have no problem with looking at SUVs to purchase). My main difference between us is I don't care what you do with your money and you not only care what I do with mine, you want to tell me what I can do with mine.
_________________
"The White House isn't the place to learn how to deal with international crisis, the balance of power, war and peace, the economic future of the next generation." --- Joe Biden, 1988
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
xina



Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 6635
Location: minneapolis

PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And I really disliked how she was so arrogant about answering only the questions SHE wanted to answer. How Bush-and-Chaney-esque is that?

quote]



My reaction wasn't that she was arrogant, but that when she didn't know the answer whe would change the subject and resort to her "safe" and canned response.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
LizE



Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 253

PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 1:51 pm    Post subject: Re: The vice presidential debate... Reply with quote

LisaW wrote:
You could only consider "Biden cleaned her plate" if you ignore that fact that, although it all flowed glibly off his tongue, a lot of what Joe said was not factual.


It's true that Biden is a politician--he exaggerates and distorts with the best of them. Katie's Restaurant was a stupid slip, but not really relevant considering the multiple wars and economic meltdown we're involved with at the moment.

LisaW wrote:
And when he said: "I said and Barack said, 'Move NATO forces in there. Fill the vacuum, because if you don't, Hezbollah will control it.'" Uh, Joe, Lebanon ain't part of NATO. No NATO troops in there. Rolling Eyes

Joe's not real knowledgeable about foreign policy, is he?.


Wrong. There was indeed talk of sending NATO forces to Lebanon in 2006, but Lebanon's president rejected them because, as he said, "NATO is too identified with the United States." A lot of people agreed someone should go into Lebanon, just not who. From Nahum Barnea, a columnist for the Israeli daily newspaper Yediot Aharonot (as quoted in the NY Times): The European foreign ministers were enthusiastic . . . “They only had one small condition — for the force to be made up of soldiers from another country,” Mr. Barnea wrote. “The Germans recommended France; the French recommended Egypt, and so on. It is doubtful whether there is a single country in the West currently volunteering to lay down its soldiers on Hezbollah’s fence.”

The whole thing about talking with Iranian leaders is just so much hair-splitting. The point is, are we going to keep on with the Bush Doctrine of striking any country whenever we like because we suspect they might be up to something, or are we going to approach the world in a different way, one that includes actually talking to people before we invade their countries? I'm really tired of the "Obama said this" and "Kissinger said that" but they both really meant something else bs. Let's get real--what is the McCain or Obama vision for the US's role in the Middle East and the rest of the world? How are we going to deal with Iran and Pakistan?

LisaW wrote:
Uh, extra points to any one who can tell us just where Joe was wrong about the VP's role.


They were both wrong on that issue. But Biden did get extra points for his mention of our current veep.

Ok, enough quibbling for the moment. Have you been watching Palin and McCain's latest performances on the campaign trail, ever since they decided to "turn the page" on that pesky economic question and focus on the real issues? The're really getting the crowds energized, aren't they? You have people shouting out that Obama is a terrorist, or even, at one Palin rally, "Kill him!" It's great to see them elevating the level of discourse this way.

Actually, I'm embarrassed and saddened for McCain, who has my sincere respect as a true war hero. If you've seen the clip of the rally where he asks, "who is the real Obama" and someone yells out, "terrorist," you can see by the look on McCain's face that this is not one of his proudest moments.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
LisaW



Joined: 05 Apr 2007
Posts: 173

PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 3:03 am    Post subject: Re: The vice presidential debate... Reply with quote

LizE wrote:

Ok, enough quibbling for the moment. Have you been watching Palin and McCain's latest performances on the campaign trail, ever since they decided to "turn the page" on that pesky economic question and focus on the real issues? The're really getting the crowds energized, aren't they? You have people shouting out that Obama is a terrorist, or even, at one Palin rally, "Kill him!" It's great to see them elevating the level of discourse this way.

Actually, I'm embarrassed and saddened for McCain, who has my sincere respect as a true war hero. If you've seen the clip of the rally where he asks, "who is the real Obama" and someone yells out, "terrorist," you can see by the look on McCain's face that this is not one of his proudest moments.


Odd ... people who were actually at those rallies and not part of the media haven't been seeing what the media mavens have. And, there is some evidence those doing the most wild shouting don't seem to be part of the McCain/Palin supporters. More like community activists.
_________________
"The White House isn't the place to learn how to deal with international crisis, the balance of power, war and peace, the economic future of the next generation." --- Joe Biden, 1988
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dick



Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 2505

PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Winning a debate has little to do with anything but being good at it. In the VP debate, Biden showed he was much better at it than Palin.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
LizE



Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 253

PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 3:37 pm    Post subject: Re: The vice presidential debate... Reply with quote

LisaW wrote:
[Odd ... people who were actually at those rallies and not part of the media haven't been seeing what the media mavens have. And, there is some evidence those doing the most wild shouting don't seem to be part of the McCain/Palin supporters. More like community activists.


You mean the media is working in collusion with community activitsts to make it seem like Sarah Palin is whipping the crowds into a frenzy of mindless hatred? So that isn't really Gov. Palin up there saying that Sen. Obama doesn't see America the way "you and I" do? That's not her calling him an America-hater who pals around with terrorists? Funny, it sure looks like her. And are all the people who are shouting and booing plants, or just the ones saying the really bad stuff?

Look, it's no secret that the McCain campaign has decided to shift the focus from the issues to personal attacks on Obama. Politics is a dirty business and both sides have been guilty of mud-slinging. I'm sure you heard about Biden saying that mocking McCain for not knowing how to use a computer was terrible, only to be informed that the Obama campaign had already done it. Say it ain't so, indeed. And Joe was right, it was terrible. But that doesn't let Palin off the hook. Giving rabble-rousing speeches in a time of economic crisis, when people are already scared and angry, is inciting mob mentality in a way that is dangerous and wrong. She's not doing anyone any good by appealing to the worst in people, especially her candidate.

Dick, it's true that debates are won by the best debaters, though it does help to have a basic understsanding of the issues under debate. But in the end, victory is in the eye of the beholder, isn't it?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
LisaW



Joined: 05 Apr 2007
Posts: 173

PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 2:40 am    Post subject: Re: The vice presidential debate... Reply with quote

LizE wrote:
LisaW wrote:
[Odd ... people who were actually at those rallies and not part of the media haven't been seeing what the media mavens have. And, there is some evidence those doing the most wild shouting don't seem to be part of the McCain/Palin supporters. More like community activists.


You mean the media is working in collusion with community activitsts to make it seem like Sarah Palin is whipping the crowds into a frenzy of mindless hatred? So that isn't really Gov. Palin up there saying that Sen. Obama doesn't see America the way "you and I" do? That's not her calling him an America-hater who pals around with terrorists? Funny, it sure looks like her. And are all the people who are shouting and booing plants, or just the ones saying the really bad stuff?

Look, it's no secret that the McCain campaign has decided to shift the focus from the issues to personal attacks on Obama. Politics is a dirty business and both sides have been guilty of mud-slinging. I'm sure you heard about Biden saying that mocking McCain for not knowing how to use a computer was terrible, only to be informed that the Obama campaign had already done it. Say it ain't so, indeed. And Joe was right, it was terrible. But that doesn't let Palin off the hook. Giving rabble-rousing speeches in a time of economic crisis, when people are already scared and angry, is inciting mob mentality in a way that is dangerous and wrong. She's not doing anyone any good by appealing to the worst in people, especially her candidate.

Dick, it's true that debates are won by the best debaters, though it does help to have a basic understsanding of the issues under debate. But in the end, victory is in the eye of the beholder, isn't it?


I have no idea if the media is working in collusion with anyone. However, it's odd these people are just showing up now with their hate talk. And odd the media finds this alarming ... but not when Conservative speakers are invited to campuses and other public venues ... and physically assaulted.

Mindless hatred? Oh, puhleeze. Sarah Palin has been have campaign rallies, just like Obama, just like Biden. If there was so much "mindless hatred," rest assured the US Secret Service would have been doing mass arrests. They are there as protection for Palin, but can and will still arrest people who make threats against any of the candidates. Sorry, but in my eyes, the Obamas don't see America the way I do. Most of Obama's campaign has been spent telling everyone how awful this country is ... and only he can change it. He does pal around with terrorists, or, are you not aware of just who Bill Ayers is, and what he advocates? And, since when are people not allowed to boo? If that has become a criminal offense, best look after some of the Obama rallies.
_________________
"The White House isn't the place to learn how to deal with international crisis, the balance of power, war and peace, the economic future of the next generation." --- Joe Biden, 1988
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dick



Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 2505

PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lisa w wrote: "I have no idea if the media is working in collusion with anyone."

But didn't you suggest to me, in a previous post, that I should work to remove media bias? Doesn't bias suggest collusion with one person or party?

Don't you find it interesting that McCain himself has tried to quiet the tenor of what is said about Obama?

to LizE: Yes, the beholder determines who wins, but the adeptness of the winner usually leads to that perception, doesn't it?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
LisaW



Joined: 05 Apr 2007
Posts: 173

PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 11:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dick wrote:
lisa w wrote: "I have no idea if the media is working in collusion with anyone."

But didn't you suggest to me, in a previous post, that I should work to remove media bias? Doesn't bias suggest collusion with one person or party?

Don't you find it interesting that McCain himself has tried to quiet the tenor of what is said about Obama?



To me, "collusion" means "actively working together." I do think the mainstream media tends to be biased in one direction -- and actively working to promote that direction.

I don't find it interesting. I think John need to wake up and smell the wishes of his base. Someone needs to be speaking out about Obama and what Conservatives find objectionable about him. Someone needs to point out the connection between Obama and groups like ACORN (a group that, in the past and currently, have been actively working to commit voter fraud ... and I thought Julia Carson was the Queen of Voter Fraud!). Perhaps it has fallen on Sarah Palin to be the Voice of the Campaign. I don't find it interesting. I find it sad.
_________________
"The White House isn't the place to learn how to deal with international crisis, the balance of power, war and peace, the economic future of the next generation." --- Joe Biden, 1988
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
xina



Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 6635
Location: minneapolis

PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LisaW wrote:
dick wrote:
media ."







I don't find it interesting. I think John need to wake up and smell the wishes of his base. Someone needs to be speaking out about Obama and what Conservatives find objectionable about him. Someone needs to point out the connection between Obama and groups like ACORN (a group that, in the past and currently, have been actively working to commit voter fraud ... and I thought Julia Carson was the Queen of Voter Fraud!). Perhaps it has fallen on Sarah Palin to be the Voice of the Campaign. I don't find it interesting. I find it sad.




I find it interesting and I give McCain a whole bunch of credit for not wanting his campaign to slip into ridiculous militant fear mongering. Did you catch his face when the woman from Minnesota (so proud she was from MY state...*sigh*) took his offered microphone and proclaimed that Obama was an Arab (she said this in an ignorant manner...meaning he was some kind of terroist...stupid woman). McCain said, "No, he is a good family man". And then the audience booed. I watched that one more time with the sound off when I was on my treadmill and his face showed almost sadness. I don't think he wants to slip into the depths of what that appears to be. I don't think he's that sort of man. As for Palin...I don't know. She seems to be following directions and saying whatever they tell her to say.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
LizE



Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 253

PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LisaW wrote:
Someone needs to point out the connection between Obama and groups like ACORN (a group that, in the past and currently, have been actively working to commit voter fraud ... and I thought Julia Carson was the Queen of Voter Fraud!).


Please, please check out the facts on Acorn! The real problem with Acorn is that they've registered many, many low-income and minority voters over the years, and there's one party that really hates that. Here's something interesting from the group itself (sorry for the length, but this is important).

Fact: ACORN has implemented the most sophisticated quality-control system in the voter engagement field, but in almost every state we are required to turn in ALL completed applications, even the ones we know to be problematic.

Fact: ACORN flags incomplete, problem, or suspicious cards when we turn them in, but these warnings are often ignored by election officials. Often these same officials then come back weeks or months later and accuse us of deliberately turning in phony cards.

Fact: Our canvassers are paid by the hour, not by the card, so there is NO incentive for them to falsify cards. ACORN has a zero-tolerance policy for deliberately falsifying registrations, and in the relatively rare cases where our internal quality controls have identified this happening we have fired the workers involved and turned them in to election officials and law-enforcement.

Fact: No charges have ever been brought against ACORN itself. Convictions against individual former ACORN workers have been accomplished with our full cooperation, using the evidence obtained through our quality control and verification processes.

Fact: Voter fraud by individuals is extremely rare, and incredibly difficult. There has never been a single proven case of anyone, anywhere, casting an illegal vote as a result of a phony voter registration. Even if someone wanted to influence the election this way, it would not work.

Fact: Most election officials have recognized ACORN's good work and praised our quality control systems. Even in the cities where election officials have complained about ACORN, the applications in question represent less than 1% of the thousands and thousands of registrations ACORN has collected.

Fact: Our accusers not only fail to provide any evidence, they fail to suggest a motive: there is virtually no chance anyone would be able to vote fraudulently, so there is no reason to deliberately submit phony registrations. ACORN is committed to ensuring that the greatest possible numbers of people are registered and allowed to vote, so there is also NO incentive to "disrupt the system" with phony cards.

Fact: Similar accusations were made, and attacks launched, against ACORN and other voter registration organizations in 2004 and 2006. These attacks were not only groundless, they have since been exposed as part of the U.S. Attorneygate scandal and revealed to be part of a systematic partisan agenda of voter suppression.


Here is part of an article from guardian.co.uk. The writer says what I'm thinking better than I can:

"It's an old Republican scam, but it's never been carried out with more zeal than this year. In almost every case where you've heard about fraud by Acorn, it's because Acorn itself notified officials about the fraud that's been perpetrated on them by rogue canvassers. Most officials who run to the media screaming "Acorn is committing fraud" know all of the above but don't bother to share those facts with the media they've run to. None of this is about voter fraud. None of it. Where any fraud has occurred, it's voter registration fraud and has resulted in exactly zero fraudulent votes.

You'll hear that Donald Duck, Mary Poppins, Dick Tracy, Mickey Mouse and (new this year) the starting lineup of the Dallas Cowboys football team have all had fraudulent registrations submitted in their names. That's true. And we know this, why? Because Acorn told officials about it when they followed the law and turned in those registrations, flagged as fraudulent.

What you won't hear is that federal law requires anybody who does not register to vote in person at the county office to show an ID when they go to vote the first time. So, unless Donald Duck shows up with his ID, he won't be voting this November. You needn't worry, no matter how much even John McCain himself cynically and dishonourably tries to mislead you."

Read the whole thing at : http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2008/oct/13/election-acorn-voter-fraud
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
LisaW



Joined: 05 Apr 2007
Posts: 173

PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 3:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LizE wrote:
LisaW wrote:
Someone needs to point out the connection between Obama and groups like ACORN (a group that, in the past and currently, have been actively working to commit voter fraud ... and I thought Julia Carson was the Queen of Voter Fraud!).


Please, please check out the facts on Acorn! The real problem with Acorn is that they've registered many, many low-income and minority voters over the years, and there's one party that really hates that. Here's something interesting from the group itself (sorry for the length, but this is important).

"It's an old Republican scam, but it's never been carried out with more zeal than this year. In almost every case where you've heard about fraud by Acorn, it's because Acorn itself notified officials about the fraud that's been perpetrated on them by rogue canvassers. Most officials who run to the media screaming "Acorn is committing fraud" know all of the above but don't bother to share those facts with the media they've run to. None of this is about voter fraud. None of it. Where any fraud has occurred, it's voter registration fraud and has resulted in exactly zero fraudulent votes.



I'm sure it is purely a Republican scam ... that's why the state of Nevada confiscated computers from ACORN over the weekend. That's why there have been reports of registration of underage voters. That's why Cuyahoga County (Ohio) bipartisan Board of Elections "voted unanimously to ask county Prosecutor Bill Mason to investigate multiple registrations by four people who signed forms at the behest of a community organizing group, the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now, known as ACORN.

One of the new voters, Freddie Johnson, 19, of Cleveland, said he signed 73 voter registration forms over a five-month period. In return, ACORN canvassers gave him cigarettes or cash, about $20 in all, he told WEWS-TV in Cleveland.

Johnson said he was trying to help paid ACORN solicitors collect signed registrations but he didn’t intend to vote more than once.

Two subpoenaed witnesses didn’t show up at the elections board hearing.

The fourth, Christopher Barkley of Cleveland, said he was badgered into signing registrations, even when he told canvassers that he had done so. He said some of the 13 registrations in his name had been signed by him, but not all."

Interestingly, Google for those "Facts" and you find them repeated over and over again on the Internet. Doesn't make them so. ACORN can hide behind the "Oh, we don't condone that" -- but when you hire people and pay them by the registration with no oversight as to just "who" is being registered, you set yourself up to be part of that fraud.
_________________
"The White House isn't the place to learn how to deal with international crisis, the balance of power, war and peace, the economic future of the next generation." --- Joe Biden, 1988
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Cyl



Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 130
Location: Mississippi

PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 6:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nifty, thanks for the link to the ABC quiz. I've always thought I might lean towards McCain if it weren't for Sarah Palin. Surprisingly, Obama outscored McCain 9 to 3. Laughing
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
LisaW



Joined: 05 Apr 2007
Posts: 173

PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 10:22 am    Post subject: Re: The vice presidential debate... Reply with quote

LizE wrote:

You mean the media is working in collusion with community activitsts to make it seem like Sarah Palin is whipping the crowds into a frenzy of mindless hatred?


Interesting addendum to the "hatred" fired up in campaign stops:

http://www.timesleader.com/news/breakingnews/Secret_Service_says_Kill_him_allegation_unfounded_.html

Quote:
The agent in charge of the Secret Service field office in Scranton said allegations that someone yelled “kill him” when presidential hopeful Barack Obama’s name was mentioned during Tuesday’s Sarah Palin rally are unfounded.

The Scranton Times-Tribune first reported the alleged incident on its Web site Tuesday and then again in its print edition Wednesday. The first story, written by reporter David Singleton, appeared with allegations that while congressional candidate Chris Hackett was addressing the crowd and mentioned Obama’s name a man in the audience shouted “kill him."

News organizations including ABC, The Associated Press, The Washington Monthly and MSNBC’s Countdown with Keith Olbermann reported the claim, with most attributing the allegations to the Times-Tribune story.

Agent Bill Slavoski said he was in the audience, along with an undisclosed number of additional secret service agents and other law enforcement officers and not one heard the comment.

“I was baffled,” he said after reading the report in Wednesday’s Times-Tribune.[b]


Hmmm ... seems people actively trained to notice this type of activity didn't ... but one reporter (one with an "agenda??") did. And, so, it sounded so good, the others picked it up and ran with it or what?

_________________
"The White House isn't the place to learn how to deal with international crisis, the balance of power, war and peace, the economic future of the next generation." --- Joe Biden, 1988
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    AAR Forum Index -> The Wild Wild West Forum All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
Page 2 of 6

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group