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I guess it's all been said?
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Yulie



Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 1150
Location: Elsewhere

PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gail K. wrote:
Kass: I love guessing games! I'm going with your LH statement.

My money is on the Cassie Edwards bit. I just can't imagine anyone writing that with a straight face.

Kinsale and Ivory: I like Kinsale's writing style and her uniqueness, but her stories don;t always work for me. I've only read one Ivory - The Proposition - and strongly disliked it. I can't even explain why, it just did not work for me at all.
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Tee



Joined: 22 Mar 2007
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Location: Detroit Metro

PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dick wrote:
...as far as I'm concerned, Laura Kinsale's and Judith Ivory's styles do suck, especially Ivory's.

Well, maybe that's not the most tactful way of putting it, because I'm sure they put a lot of themselves into their work; but I'm with you on your thoughts about Ivory's style, for sure. I no longer read Kinsale, but Ivory has NEVER worked for me. Overly wordy and "fussy."
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Maggie AAR



Joined: 23 Mar 2007
Posts: 2506

PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tee wrote:
dick wrote:
...as far as I'm concerned, Laura Kinsale's and Judith Ivory's styles do suck, especially Ivory's.

Well, maybe that's not the most tactful way of putting it, because I'm sure they put a lot of themselves into their work; but I'm with you on your thoughts about Ivory's style, for sure. I no longer read Kinsale, but Ivory has NEVER worked for me. Overly wordy and "fussy."


Add me to the list of Ivory detractors. I was deeply disturbed by the books of hers I've tried. The treatment of the mistress from "Black Silk" still has me reeling.

And there was an underlying creepiness in regards to the initial relationship of the heroine and her husband. I felt like the "love story" was one of the least healthy I had ever read.

maggie b.
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xina



Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 6635
Location: minneapolis

PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Schola wrote:
Okay, I'll bite!

But only because I'm honestly curious.

What is it about Kinsale's style that you all don't like?

I've only read My Sweet Folly, and though I found it rough in places, I find that I really love Kinsale. (It was the scene with the knitting woman that charmed me for life.)

Like all fans, I really can't fathom what there is to dislike. Please enlighten me! Very Happy







I didn't care for My Sweet Folly, but I did enjoy The Shadow and the Star when I read it many years ago. I've attempted time and again, but her books just don't thrill me. It has always been difficult for me to pinpoint style in any writer, so my measure of a book has always been whether or not I look forward to it at the end of the day. With Kinsale, if I've finished it's always been plodding to the finish. I really can't say why, but her stories don't engage me, but to be fair, I haven't tried in a couple of years, so maybe I'll give it another go some time in the future.
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xina



Joined: 22 Mar 2007
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Location: minneapolis

PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

."[/quote]

Add me to the list of Ivory detractors. I was deeply disturbed by the books of hers I've tried. The treatment of the mistress from "Black Silk" still has me reeling.

And there was an underlying creepiness in regards to the initial relationship of the heroine and her husband. I felt like the "love story" was one of the least healthy I had ever read.

maggie b.[/quote]





While I enjoy Ivory much more than Kinsale, I agree with about Black Silk. In my mind I put that book into the same category as Fast Women by Jennifer Cruise.....not romance but women's fiction or just general fiction. In themselves, pretty good books, but as a romance novel they don't work. I read them both (after reading countless reviews) with that in mind.
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dick



Joined: 22 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

to Schola: I guess I should have put "narrative" in front of the word "style" in the comment about Kinsale's. It's not the words, nor even the syntax that I object to. It's the denseness of the narrative parts of the story. She leaves nothing out; neither the smallest of actions nor the minutiae of emotions, things a half-way intelligent reader doesn't need to be told. I don't need to know that a character swallowed after sipping at his tea, for example--unless the swallowing tells me something I need to know. If, he perhaps were to spit the sip out or spit it at someone, I might be interested.

It always seems to me that Kinsale has her eye on everything and records it regardless. That's what I mean by disliking her style.

That being said, I nonetheless read Flowers from the Storm with enjoyment for its unusual story.

With Ivory's style, I was speaking of her words and syntax. Tee said it beautifully. It's overblown, fussy. I want to take a red pencil to it.
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Kass



Joined: 23 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
What is it about Kinsale's style that you all don't like?

It's stilted and unnatural. It doesn't flow well. Plus, her penchant for rape and torture put me off. The only book of hers I tried was Shadowheart, after which I felt like throwing up.

Nope. I do love Linda Howard and think she's a comic genius for Mr. Perfect...y'all think I believe Cassie Edwards writes her own stuff? Not hardly.
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xina



Joined: 22 Mar 2007
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Location: minneapolis

PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually, I did enjoy For My Lady's Heart. I liked the Middle English language very much and thought Ruck (?) was a very good hero. So, there are 2 I have liked by Kinsale. I attempted Shadowheart, but it just didn't grab me.
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Allyson



Joined: 23 Mar 2007
Posts: 567

PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Meh, I don't think saying Kinsale and Ivory suck is controversial at all. I've seen them both raked over the coals here many times with a lot less backlash than other author-insulting will get. Calling them pretentious and so on is pretty par for the course.

I see that sort of thing all over the internet, though. Once something becomes popular, people pop up to talk about how they don't like it, and it's usually prefaced with *ducks thrown objects* or *smallvoice* or generally other statements making it seem like they think other readers are going to flame them out. Even when it's long past the point where saying such a thing is really new and controversial.

(Personally, I like some Ivory and some Kinsale, not a fan of all their stuff though.)
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xina



Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 6635
Location: minneapolis

PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 10:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Allyson"]Meh, I don't think saying Kinsale and Ivory suck is controversial at all. I've seen them both raked over the coals here many times with a lot less backlash than other author-insulting will get. Calling them pretentious and so on is pretty par for the course.

quote]


I wouldn't call Kinsale's writing pretentious...not at all. To be called pretentious is something else entirely. Pretentious, to me, is Dunnett's first book in the Lymond series...Game Of Kings, but not Kinsale's books. (ducking and running a 2nd time for the Dunnett remark) xina
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Yulie



Joined: 22 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 1:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

xina wrote:
Pretentious, to me, is Dunnett's first book in the Lymond series...Game Of Kings, but not Kinsale's books. (ducking and running a 2nd time for the Dunnett remark)

No need to duck and run from me - I couldn't follow that book at all. And I'd like to think I'm a fairly intelligent person Cool .
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xina



Joined: 22 Mar 2007
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Location: minneapolis

PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[
No need to duck and run from me - I couldn't follow that book at all. And I'd like to think I'm a fairly intelligent person Cool .[/quote]




Whew! So, I"m not the only one Yulie? I always thought if I could wend my way through Atlas Shrugged (and enjoy it), I could take on just about anything! Really, I thought Queen's Play (#2 in the Lymond Chronicles) was very enjoyable and almost like another author wrote it. I have great respect for Dunnett's work, just not that first book.
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Gail K.



Joined: 19 May 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Re: ATLAS SHRUGGED. I enjoyed the story of this too, much to my own surprise, xina, when I read it one summer during high school when bored and deciding to tackle a 1000-page book Wink
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Linda in sw va



Joined: 27 Mar 2007
Posts: 4708

PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

xina wrote:
[
Whew! So, I"m not the only one Yulie? I always thought if I could wend my way through Atlas Shrugged (and enjoy it), I could take on just about anything! Really, I thought Queen's Play (#2 in the Lymond Chronicles) was very enjoyable and almost like another author wrote it. I have great respect for Dunnett's work, just not that first book.


The first book is actually my favorite in the series! Actually I think that's usually the case with me, the first introduction to the characters and a character as exceptional as Lymond is a treasure. But that said, I did struggle with the writing style the first time I picked it up and then proceeded to put it down unfinished for a couple years. Then I was encouraged by friends to give it another shot and that second time was a charm, I just fell right into the writing. The second time around I also knew what to expect, the first time I had no idea what I was getting into, lol. I definitely agree that they get easier with subsequent books, starting with Queen's Play.

Linda
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Yulie



Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 1150
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

xina wrote:
Really, I thought Queen's Play (#2 in the Lymond Chronicles) was very enjoyable and almost like another author wrote it. I have great respect for Dunnett's work, just not that first book.

Well, if that's the case, maybe I'll give Queen's Play a shot. My library has quite a few of her books, so I guess it's worth trying.
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