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Fifty Shades #4...Discussion Continues
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xina



Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 6635
Location: minneapolis

PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Diana wrote:
Xina, I hope they play trivia. It would be a hoot to come up with trivia questions. What color is Christian's favorite dress? What are Taylor's and Sawyer's first names?

Linda, yes I know people who still won't touch it because of the fan fiction origins. They're still mad.

And I'm still goggled and amused at the "I wouldn't touch that book even if I were in a hazmat suit" people who profess to be experts on its content and who feel entitled to psychoanalyze its readers. Raspberries!



The friend hosting the party is *ahem* very creative. So, it should be a lot of laughs and fun. That trivia idea is great. fun!

And there sure is a lot of anger about the book among romance readers, bloggers, authors. It's just plain weird after all this time. Move on.. Raspberries from me too. Rolling Eyes
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Eliza



Joined: 21 Aug 2011
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 11:38 am    Post subject: Re: How about 50Shades for Father's Day :) Edited Reply with quote

Sandy AAR wrote:
Linda in sw va wrote:
Quote:


---------------------------------------------------------------

I'm not a publisher of AAR and if I was I suppose I'd get a little riled up but, if I had a vote, I'd vote for folks to post here whether they like, love, hate or are indifferent to 50Shades -- I'm interested in everyone's opinion and I've found some GREAT new titles and authors.

---------------------------------------------------------------

.


Janet, I think Sandy was referring to the personal jabs. I'm sure everyone agrees that differing opinions on books are fine.

Team Dad is a riot! No, I can't see myself spending any $ on the satire but I agree it's a compliment. Smile

Linda


Yes, indeed I was, Linda. I'm surprised janet w didn't get that.


FWIW, I thought it was aimed at me too. That's the problem with generic warnings: The people who already know this will hear you, and the people who need to hear it may still not. May I respectfully suggest PMs to repeat offenders--if that's not too time consuming? Or, if it will remain a general warning, avoid using any names at all, one side or the other, since I've been snarked at too. Recently.
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Linda in sw va



Joined: 27 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Diana wrote:
Xina, I hope they play trivia. It would be a hoot to come up with trivia questions. What color is Christian's favorite dress? What are Taylor's and Sawyer's first names?

Linda, yes I know people who still won't touch it because of the fan fiction origins. They're still mad.

And I'm still goggled and amused at the "I wouldn't touch that book even if I were in a hazmat suit" people who profess to be experts on its content and who feel entitled to psychoanalyze its readers. Raspberries!


Oh and what fun could be had with the prizes! LOL

I would have more understanding of the 'mad' fan fiction crowd if they were also as mad about the other Twilight fanfiction works that made it into print. Maybe it's out there and I've just missed it.

Linda
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Linda in sw va



Joined: 27 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 12:01 pm    Post subject: Re: How about 50Shades for Father's Day :) Edited Reply with quote

Eliza, did you watch the Dr. Ruth video by chance? She touches on some of the aspects you seemed interested in a few pages back.

Linda
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Sandy AAR



Joined: 23 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 12:30 pm    Post subject: Re: How about 50Shades for Father's Day :) Edited Reply with quote

[quote="Eliza"][quote="Sandy AAR"][quote="Linda in sw va"]
Quote:


FWIW, I thought it was aimed at me too. That's the problem with generic warnings: The people who already know this will hear you, and the people who need to hear it may still not. May I respectfully suggest PMs to repeat offenders--if that's not too time consuming? Or, if it will remain a general warning, avoid using any names at all, one side or the other, since I've been snarked at too. Recently.


I am sure the repeat offender knew who she was and who I was talking to. And I did not use any names to avoid embarrassing anyone. I was addressing a specific situation and I thought it was quite clear what I was talking about.

As to personal PMs to offenders, they do happen. All the time.

Janet W has clarified her post so I am not sure what the continued issue is. Well, other than you can't win for loosing.
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janet w



Joined: 11 May 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 12:37 pm    Post subject: The Daily Beast w/a bizarre 50Shades/Harl mash-up Reply with quote

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/06/06/how-fifty-shades-of-grey-is-shaking-up-the-business-of-the-romance-genre.html

I always wonder when my twitter stream explodes with comments from authors (I'm paraphrasing) ... why doesn't the mainstream media know that E L James didn't invent BDSM yadda yadda, rinse repeat. But even for the mistake-strewn articles we've come to expect, the Daily Beast article will have you tipsy in seconds if you take a drink everytime the author makes a mistake. It's unreal.

p.s. Thx for your comment Sandy -- I will be more circumspect in future -- and follow the long-standing traditions established here for message board posts. jkw
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Eliza



Joined: 21 Aug 2011
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 12:52 pm    Post subject: Re: How about 50Shades for Father's Day :) Edited Reply with quote

Linda in sw va wrote:
Eliza, did you watch the Dr. Ruth video by chance? She touches on some of the aspects you seemed interested in a few pages back.

Linda


Thank you for reaching out to me, Linda. That is so like you. Smile

Of course Dr Ruth emphasized the sex part of all this which is to be expected-- along with the history. She got one thing wrong, though--about the British image of being uptight. They are far bawdier in reality--and have been for a long time--than the image of the average American has been, IMO and their opinion too. We're still seen as pretty uptight Puritans by them. Wink
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Eliza



Joined: 21 Aug 2011
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 1:07 pm    Post subject: Re: How about 50Shades for Father's Day :) Edited Reply with quote

Sandy AAR wrote:
I am sure the repeat offender knew who she was and who I was talking to. And I did not use any names to avoid embarrassing anyone. I was addressing a specific situation and I thought it was quite clear what I was talking about.

As to personal PMs to offenders, they do happen. All the time.

Janet W has clarified her post so I am not sure what the continued issue is. Well, other than you can't win for loosing.


Thank you for your kindness and consideration. Kindness is always appreciated.
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Linda in sw va



Joined: 27 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 1:10 pm    Post subject: Re: The Daily Beast w/a bizarre 50Shades/Harl mash-up Reply with quote

janet w wrote:
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/06/06/how-fifty-shades-of-grey-is-shaking-up-the-business-of-the-romance-genre.html

I always wonder when my twitter stream explodes with comments from authors (I'm paraphrasing) ... why doesn't the mainstream media know that E L James didn't invent BDSM yadda yadda, rinse repeat. But even for the mistake-strewn articles we've come to expect, the Daily Beast article will have you tipsy in seconds if you take a drink everytime the author makes a mistake. It's unreal.

p.s. Thx for your comment Sandy -- I will be more circumspect in future -- and follow the long-standing traditions established here for message board posts. jkw


Now that was interesting! What grabs me is this quote from the article -

***The protagonist of every book Harlequin puts out has to pass an editorial smell test as being “realistic.” “The reader needs to feel like she would have made the same decisions as the character, no matter how far out the scenario is,” says Susan Litman, who edits novels for the publisher. Litman believes it’s that aspect of the novels that has brought readers back to Harlequin for more than six decades.***


To me that's the problem right there, no, I do NOT have to feel I would have made the same decisions as the heroine in order to enjoy the story. Not in the least. I would never have made the same choices Ana did, realism would be that this guy is whacko and I needed to run in the opposite direction. The enjoyment of fiction isn't about the characters making safe, reasonable choices and yes that includes romance. Often times it's about stepping out on the ledge and taking a risk, as a reader I can have the fun of experiencing situations from a safe distance. If the characters always did what I would consider reasonable and realistic where is the fun?

This is part of the reason the romance genre has grown stale. A major publisher has decided that their readers have to agree with the choices of the characters but who sets the standard? What they've decided we would agree with? Obviously they're a bit off the mark and if this is their mode of thinking no wonder they're surprised at the success of FSoG. It does not adhere to their tightly controlled romance novel standards. Wake up people!

Linda
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xina



Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 6635
Location: minneapolis

PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 2:06 pm    Post subject: Re: The Daily Beast w/a bizarre 50Shades/Harl mash-up Reply with quote

Linda in sw va wrote:




To me that's the problem right there, no, I do NOT have to feel I would have made the same decisions as the heroine in order to enjoy the story. Not in the least. I would never have made the same choices Ana did, realism would be that this guy is whacko and I needed to run in the opposite direction. The enjoyment of fiction isn't about the characters making safe, reasonable choices and yes that includes romance. Often times it's about stepping out on the ledge and taking a risk, as a reader I can have the fun of experiencing situations from a safe distance. If the characters always did what I would consider reasonable and realistic where is the fun?

This is part of the reason the romance genre has grown stale. A major publisher has decided that their readers have to agree with the choices of the characters but who sets the standard? What they've decided we would agree with? Obviously they're a bit off the mark and if this is their mode of thinking no wonder they're surprised at the success of FSoG. It does not adhere to their tightly controlled romance novel standards. Wake up people!

Linda


LOL..I feel the same. I had this conversation with my DIL when we were discussing Fifty. She said she liked the story,but would she want to be with a guy like him? No, no and no. I feel the same, but reading to me, has always been escaping to another place and I'm not just talking about romance novels..any fiction.If I were to read a book like my real life it would be a snore fest. Sorry...it's true.

I haven't really read the article yet. I'll have to do that later. Very interesting what I have read so far.
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erika



Joined: 26 Mar 2007
Posts: 504

PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 2:16 am    Post subject: Re: The Daily Beast w/a bizarre 50Shades/Harl mash-up Reply with quote

Linda in sw va wrote:
janet w wrote:
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/06/06/how-fifty-shades-of-grey-is-shaking-up-the-business-of-the-romance-genre.html

I always wonder when my twitter stream explodes with comments from authors (I'm paraphrasing) ... why doesn't the mainstream media know that E L James didn't invent BDSM yadda yadda, rinse repeat. But even for the mistake-strewn articles we've come to expect, the Daily Beast article will have you tipsy in seconds if you take a drink everytime the author makes a mistake. It's unreal.

p.s. Thx for your comment Sandy -- I will be more circumspect in future -- and follow the long-standing traditions established here for message board posts. jkw


Now that was interesting! What grabs me is this quote from the article -

***The protagonist of every book Harlequin puts out has to pass an editorial smell test as being “realistic.” “The reader needs to feel like she would have made the same decisions as the character, no matter how far out the scenario is,” says Susan Litman, who edits novels for the publisher. Litman believes it’s that aspect of the novels that has brought readers back to Harlequin for more than six decades.***


To me that's the problem right there, no, I do NOT have to feel I would have made the same decisions as the heroine in order to enjoy the story. Not in the least. I would never have made the same choices Ana did, realism would be that this guy is whacko and I needed to run in the opposite direction. The enjoyment of fiction isn't about the characters making safe, reasonable choices and yes that includes romance. Often times it's about stepping out on the ledge and taking a risk, as a reader I can have the fun of experiencing situations from a safe distance. If the characters always did what I would consider reasonable and realistic where is the fun?

This is part of the reason the romance genre has grown stale. A major publisher has decided that their readers have to agree with the choices of the characters but who sets the standard? What they've decided we would agree with? Obviously they're a bit off the mark and if this is their mode of thinking no wonder they're surprised at the success of FSoG. It does not adhere to their tightly controlled romance novel standards. Wake up people!

Linda


Ditto Linda! So this is why I'm buying less romance these days and why I'm unimpressed with Harlequins.
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xina



Joined: 22 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 9:13 am    Post subject: Re: The Daily Beast w/a bizarre 50Shades/Harl mash-up Reply with quote

Linda in sw va wrote:




This is part of the reason the romance genre has grown stale. A major publisher has decided that their readers have to agree with the choices of the characters but who sets the standard? What they've decided we would agree with? Obviously they're a bit off the mark and if this is their mode of thinking no wonder they're surprised at the success of FSoG. It does not adhere to their tightly controlled romance novel standards. Wake up people!

Linda



Yes...I agree with this.
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NoirFemme



Joined: 22 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:34 pm    Post subject: Re: The Daily Beast w/a bizarre 50Shades/Harl mash-up Reply with quote

janet w wrote:
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/06/06/how-fifty-shades-of-grey-is-shaking-up-the-business-of-the-romance-genre.html

I always wonder when my twitter stream explodes with comments from authors (I'm paraphrasing) ... why doesn't the mainstream media know that E L James didn't invent BDSM yadda yadda, rinse repeat. But even for the mistake-strewn articles we've come to expect, the Daily Beast article will have you tipsy in seconds if you take a drink everytime the author makes a mistake. It's unreal.


Despite the mistakes, I'm rather surprised by the genuine tone of the article--and by the lack of romance (aka "bodice ripper") jokes and hatred in the comments section. Funny how a trilogy so reviled within most of Romancelandia has garnered relatively serious responses to it and the romance genre in the media.

Linda in sw va wrote:
Now that was interesting! What grabs me is this quote from the article -

***The protagonist of every book Harlequin puts out has to pass an editorial smell test as being “realistic.” “The reader needs to feel like she would have made the same decisions as the character, no matter how far out the scenario is,” says Susan Litman, who edits novels for the publisher. Litman believes it’s that aspect of the novels that has brought readers back to Harlequin for more than six decades.***


To me that's the problem right there, no, I do NOT have to feel I would have made the same decisions as the heroine in order to enjoy the story. Not in the least. I would never have made the same choices Ana did, realism would be that this guy is whacko and I needed to run in the opposite direction. The enjoyment of fiction isn't about the characters making safe, reasonable choices and yes that includes romance. Often times it's about stepping out on the ledge and taking a risk, as a reader I can have the fun of experiencing situations from a safe distance. If the characters always did what I would consider reasonable and realistic where is the fun?

This is part of the reason the romance genre has grown stale. A major publisher has decided that their readers have to agree with the choices of the characters but who sets the standard? What they've decided we would agree with? Obviously they're a bit off the mark and if this is their mode of thinking no wonder they're surprised at the success of FSoG. It does not adhere to their tightly controlled romance novel standards. Wake up people!

Linda


Yes, yes, and yes!

This practice is almost like subconscious (Inner Goddess? Laughing ) repetition of Victorian policing of women's reading. Like we have to have our hands held whilst reading for fear of introducing a bad influence on our mind and emotions. Even though romance readers do say "I won't read this" or "I don't like these tropes/settings/plots", that does not mean we read books to remain safe and cosseted. After all, isn't falling in love one of the riskiest and adventurous choices everyone makes in life?
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Linda in sw va



Joined: 27 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 11:39 am    Post subject: Re: The Daily Beast w/a bizarre 50Shades/Harl mash-up Reply with quote

NoirFemme wrote:
[This practice is almost like subconscious (Inner Goddess? Laughing ) repetition of Victorian policing of women's reading. Like we have to have our hands held whilst reading for fear of introducing a bad influence on our mind and emotions.


This is exactly the impression I got and with the popularity of Fifty Shades we're getting all sorts of warnings about how dangerous it is for women. In Dr. Drew's case without having even read more than a few excerpts. pffft! I don't think we need to be coddled and I don't need an editor at Harlequin deciding if a heroine's decisions pass the 'smell test' in order to get published.

All the more reason to support independent publishing!

Linda
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xina



Joined: 22 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 1:55 pm    Post subject: Re: The Daily Beast w/a bizarre 50Shades/Harl mash-up Reply with quote

Linda in sw va wrote:


This is exactly the impression I got and with the popularity of Fifty Shades we're getting all sorts of warnings about how dangerous it is for women. In Dr. Drew's case without having even read more than a few excerpts. pffft! I don't think we need to be coddled and I don't need an editor at Harlequin deciding if a heroine's decisions pass the 'smell test' in order to get published.

All the more reason to support independent publishing!

Linda




Seems very managed, very controlled. I would think with the popularity of Fifty they would attempt to take a few steps out of that tired box. Or a flying leap, but I'm not holding my breath.
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