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A question about participation
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Lee



Joined: 27 Mar 2007
Posts: 215

PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 6:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Norcalgolfer, I am glad you can admit when you're wrong, but it takes a heck of a lot of convincing. And I wonder if your mom thinks she was a single mother, even if was "only" 4-5 years (and is that a lie or an attempt at obscuring the issue - was it 4 or 5 years?).

But I really would like an answer to my question of whether you would have "no problem" with Obama lying to us for "national security" reasons to invade Iran, China, North Korea, etc.? Or is Obama held to a different standard by you?
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norcalgolfer



Joined: 06 Jul 2009
Posts: 38
Location: Ranch Cordova, CA

PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@Lee

I take a lot of convincing because I like to be right, if you want to be right about politics you will have to read so much more than on many other issues because so many people are happy to distort the truth when it comes to that.

I say 4-5 years because it is a rough estimate on what you seem to consider might possibly entitle me to say I was raised by a single mother. The date my Dad actually moved out, and the day he had basically stopped being there were not the same day. I haven't sat down either and tried to figure out to the day how many days each respectively was, as well as what age I consider myself to have stopped being raised by anybody. The dates were at least enough apart to warrant saying 4 or 5 years. I doubt my Mom would say any of her 4 children were raised by a single mother, even though she was one for a period. My father didn't abandon us completely though, and she owns her own home with one of the most incredible views in all of California entirely because of him. Neither she nor my father are wealthy or have been by any stretch of the imagination, note that it is the view I stated was one of the most incredible in CA, not the house Smile

Lee wrote:
The national security excuse was the one Bush was counting on us to swallow. So I guess you would support Obama lying to us to invade Iran, North Korea, China and Venezuela to make the US safer too? Because they are more a threat to us than Iraq ever was.


In order to answer this question fully, I would need to lecture on national security issues going back to before the 1970s. I would need to talk about such things as CIA witch hunts, inter-agency rivalry, double-agents, humint, pervasive bureaucratic attitudes and policies, public-opinion, existing and previous real terror threats, foreign opinion, foreign power struggles, foreign economic markets and their development over the previous 20 years, the roles defense contractors now play, the roles defense contractors played prior 9/11/2001, common misconceptions regarding types and forms of intelligence material available prior to 9/11/2001, the real threats currently posed to the U.S., foreign propaganda practices, weird crap that is believed about the U.S. by foreigners, etc. That was just a very small sample of the multitude of reasons we had for invading a country in the Middle East, why we chose Iraq, why China and N.K. and Venezuela are not a bigger threat to the U.S. than the Middle East.

Would I support Obama putting the focus on a single perceived national security threat in order to start dealing with an absolutely real terrorist threat that is so much more broad and that 90% of the population is completely unaware of? Yes, absolutely, and would I care if I found out later that the specific focus turned out to possibly be just bluster of the country invaded in order to strike fear in their local enemies hearts? I wouldn't, but that is all because I do believe there are people out there that wish to destroy us, you don't have to believe if you don't want to, but I do.

If you still feel I haven't answered your question and want me to, why don't you start another thread for us to discuss the possible merits for being in Iraq. Although that would definitely be interesting for you to start the thread on today of all days wouldn't it.
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Lee



Joined: 27 Mar 2007
Posts: 215

PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No thanks, I've heard enough and none of it changes the fact that we were told we needed to invade Iraq because there were WMDs that could annihilate us and that were linked to al-Qaeda and when we got there, there were none.

But I think you missed my point about the 4-5 year remark - like Obama, you weren't specific about how many years your mom was single, but you weren't trying to deceive anyone. It doesn't really make a difference or make you a dishonest person, unless someone chooses to make an issue out of it, which I don't. You choose to make it an issue with Obama.
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