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Roses and Pigskin: Football for romance fans!
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Nana



Joined: 02 Apr 2007
Posts: 947

PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 12:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

anu wrote:

Nana, re: the Patriotsí attitude. Iím torn on this topic. I mean, otoh, I love to hate the Patriots. But, what are they supposed to do exactly? Theyíre killing all competitionóthatís their job. That other teams canít do their own job against the Patsóthatís not the Patsí fault. Itís not their job to show mercy to the losing team, or to be humble about it. I mean I guess if they were humble, it might make it sting less, but frankly, a blowout is the losing teamsí concern, not the Pats.


I argue that that's exactly what sportsmanship means - to show mercy to the losing team and be humble about it. The point of an athletic competition is to overcome your opponent, not to humiliate them. In the NFL, at least, you don't gain anything from a high margin of victory. Take a knee when you have the game locked up.

I think this is a weakness in college football because the poll system favors teams with impressive-sounding victories. I dislike Hawaii for this reason - how do you respect somebody who beats Northern Colorado 63-6? And yet they're ranked 12th in the nation because journalists see them as unstoppable. Kansas is doing the same thing now - beating Nebraska 76-39? Come on. One point wins a game. You don't need 37.

anu wrote:
Jebe, Ohio St. is insane about their sports.


Yes, we are!! And I'm very happy this morning!
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Yulie



Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 1150
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 3:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nana wrote:
I argue that that's exactly what sportsmanship means - to show mercy to the losing team and be humble about it. The point of an athletic competition is to overcome your opponent, not to humiliate them. In the NFL, at least, you don't gain anything from a high margin of victory. Take a knee when you have the game locked up.

Well stated, Nana. There's a difference between beating the competition and humilating them, a difference that appears to have been lost on the Patriots, their coaching staff and their fans. I can see the point of large margins in college: sadly, the polls reflect such things, so unless teams are heavily featured on TV, there's not much choice about it. In the NFL, where it's only the number of Ws that matters, there's absolutely no need, with a huge lead late in the game, to:
1. Keep throwing the ball;
2. Keep your starting QB in, or really any of the starters;
3. Go for it on 4th down.
The Patriots do all these things, which is lowsy sportsmanship and generally unappealing. The Colts do not, which is why you do not see them generate the ill will the Pats do despite being undefeated, too. Go Colts!!!

Meanwhile, in the much more entertaining college season... The Ducks won and Boston College lost! Am hoping the BCS standings come out right this week.
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anu



Joined: 23 Mar 2007
Posts: 113

PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sigh.

Well, it was a painful loss, but not nearly as bad as it could've been. It's very clear that the Colts can hang with the Patriots, that they are certainly their equal. I admit I had some doubts, especially when the NE has been blowing it all out of the water.

The fact is, the Colts could've won this game. The Pats played a bit sloppy, the Colts D was AMAZING. But it was the Colts offense that really lost this game. Missed passes, weak protection. Manning wasn't on his game, and the Oline couldn't get much going. Which meant the D was on the field more than it should've been, tiring out at the end.

Dammit, we could've won. And now, the Pats have homefield in the playoffs. And I had to endure the first vaguely human expression of joy to cross Bellichek's face. Ugh.

Colts definitely have some work to do. Addai was phenomenal, but he can only carry the team so far. I wonder how much of a difference Harrison and Ugoh would've made. The playoffs will certainly be interesting.

As far as the Pats' sportsmanship. Yulie and Nana, the only thing I really have a problem with the Pats doing is Yulie's #2. Keeping Brady in the game, or any of the starters when you're clearly blowing out the opponent is just hardcore unsportsmanship.

But, taking the knee, as Nana suggested? No way. That's insulting to other team. Everything else, I think it's shitty, but I don't think it's unsportsmanship. I prefer the Colts approach, true, and while I've seen some crappy things from the Pats, I don't have near the vitriol for it as many seem to.

I think the best way to humble this team, any team, is to beat them, to shut them up. I will be happy for any team that does. I think the Colts showed today that it's possible. (The thought of the Patriots winning the Superbowl makes my blood run cold.) Til then, it's just talk.
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Nana



Joined: 02 Apr 2007
Posts: 947

PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 10:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

anu wrote:
Sigh.

But, taking the knee, as Nana suggested? No way. That's insulting to other team. Everything else, I think it's shitty, but I don't think it's unsportsmanship.


I thought that, too, for a long time - like it was a taunt. But when I talked to guys who played the game (my husband, my brother, my brother-in-law, etc) apparently among players it's universally considered the respectful thing to do. Both sides know that the game is over, and this way you don't risk anybody getting hurt on a play that wouldn't have changed anything. So knowing that players want the team that's beating them to take a knee, I can't accept the Pats' refusal to do it.

And ARGH I was pulling for the Colts! But they'll meet again in the playoffs and that'll be the game that really means something. And since whoever won the AFC last year could have taken the Bears, I would definitely accept this fourth-quarter comeback as a tradeoff for last year's comeback. I agree, Anu - the thought of that fourth ring in those grasping, cheating fingers makes me nauseous.
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nikki



Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 1134

PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 12:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i almost cried when my beloved colts lost today. on the plus side, there is no doubt in my mind the colts will beat them in the playoffs. they not only held their own, they let the pats know they can beat them. if not for a few late game mistakes, this would have been a colts win.

they're gonna have to make sure peyton is protected, though. he's not good when he's rattled.
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Yulie



Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 1150
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 7:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

anu wrote:
As far as the Pats' sportsmanship. Yulie and Nana, the only thing I really have a problem with the Pats doing is Yulie's #2. Keeping Brady in the game, or any of the starters when you're clearly blowing out the opponent is just hardcore unsportsmanship.

But, taking the knee, as Nana suggested? No way. That's insulting to other team. Everything else, I think it's shitty, but I don't think it's unsportsmanship. I prefer the Colts approach, true, and while I've seen some crappy things from the Pats, I don't have near the vitriol for it as many seem to.

I'm not sure about taking a knee, unless it's the very end of the game. However, throwing deep in the fourth serves no purpose if you're up by 30 (recall that the greatest second half comeback ever was 32 points), it is intended solely to show off, and should be treated the same way excessive endzone celebrations are.

Like it or not, NFL teams also serve as models, to some degree, to amateur athletes, and the message the Patriots' conduct sends is a bad one. I actually started out liking them way back in the first championship season - but no more.

As for college developments, I must say that if there really is a good & evil, it's the BCS that's evil.
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anu



Joined: 23 Mar 2007
Posts: 113

PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nana, I'm really not sure about the knee. I'd think playing in the NFL is a whole different deal. I mean, the Patriots were up against the Redskins by 35+ points or something in the 3rdQ. Can you imagine how Skins and their fans would've felt if NE had called it quits? What a punch to the gut. Big money, big careers, big pools of fans--there's just no way a knee would've been seen as anything but a huge middle finger. I cannot see such a gesture as anything but an insult in those circumstances.

I kinda feel the same about Yulie's point, re: throwing in the 4th. If you can, you do. It would more humiliating to me if you cut me slack because you obviously think I'm not in your league. Make me stop you. I'll take the lumps if I can't.

I dunno, I just can't get too worked up about it. My problem with NE is not what they do, it's what they can do: They can score at will, pass at will (that one-handed catch by Moss last night? Insane), they defend at will. They are so scary good, that I want them brought down.

Heh, btw, anyone catch the Lions game? How bout that blowout?? That game was on on the screen near where we were sitting, and it was something to see Lions' fans have something to cheer about!

And I know everybody's looking forward to the re-match in the AFC championship, but let's not get ahead of yourselves. The Colts are awesome, but it was just two years ago that they lost to Pittsburgh in the first round. A lot can still happen.
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Nana



Joined: 02 Apr 2007
Posts: 947

PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 12:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Go Steelers! WOOOOO!
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Nana



Joined: 02 Apr 2007
Posts: 947

PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nana wrote:
Go Steelers! WOOOOO!


And to follow that:

heartbroken sobs over Ohio State.

You know, if I had to pick, I would have picked college, where one loss ends the season, instead of the pros where it just gives a bigger playoff cushion Sad
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nikki



Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 1134

PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

they say this year set the record for most top five ranked teams going down to unranked opponents. when ohio state became number one, it was just a matter of time.
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Yulie



Joined: 22 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 3:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nikki wrote:
they say this year set the record for most top five ranked teams going down to unranked opponents. when ohio state became number one, it was just a matter of time.

See, if we have learned anything this season, it's that if you wait two weeks, your team will be right back in it, because someone else will be upset by an unranked team. Anyone want to try picking the two teams that will end up in the title game Smile ?

In Patriots-related developments, I understand that with NE up by a bazillion points late in the game last week, Brady was still in there throwing. I don't want to wish him ill, but this is not only unsportsmanlike, it's also stupid. Imagine if he got injured on a meaningless play in a game like that. Why do they keep doing it? Give the backup some snaps.
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Nana



Joined: 02 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yulie wrote:
nikki wrote:
they say this year set the record for most top five ranked teams going down to unranked opponents. when ohio state became number one, it was just a matter of time.

See, if we have learned anything this season, it's that if you wait two weeks, your team will be right back in it, because someone else will be upset by an unranked team. Anyone want to try picking the two teams that will end up in the title game Smile


If West Virginia and Missouri both win this week - WVA and Mizzou.

If one loses: the one who won and Ohio State

If both lose: Ohio State and God knows. Probably LSU, if LSU wins the SEC, because for some reason everybody loves them. But if LSU loses, and those two both lose, I have not the faintest idea.

So, with that said...go Oklahoma and Pitt! Get my Buckeyes in this thing!
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Yulie



Joined: 22 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 3:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nana wrote:
If West Virginia and Missouri both win this week - WVA and Mizzou.

If one loses: the one who won and Ohio State

If both lose: Ohio State and God knows. Probably LSU, if LSU wins the SEC, because for some reason everybody loves them. But if LSU loses, and those two both lose, I have not the faintest idea.

So, with that said...go Oklahoma and Pitt! Get my Buckeyes in this thing!

Nana, you are a brave woman. I tried to work it out in my head, but it caused it to spin and (almost) explode, so I'm leaving it to the professionals!

I want the Sooners to do well for my own selfish reasons: I like them. That having been said, the Buckeyes are a much worthier contender than LSU. I say let the O-teams play for it.
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nikki



Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 1134

PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i live in georgia so i have to pull for the georgia bulldogs to make it into the championship game on general principle.
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Nana



Joined: 02 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 1:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Holy heck! Missouri and WVU BOTH lost!

I'm going to bet it'll be my Buckeyes vs. LSU for the title. Go Bucks!
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