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The Siren by Tiffany Reisz
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Judyblueeyes



Joined: 06 Aug 2012
Posts: 163
Location: Great Lakes

PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 8:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Finished The Angel last night!

The only thing I can say is...I felt like I was at a Halloween Amusement Park and had to go on a series of roller coasters and some in the series I didn't want to ride on because they were so uncomfortable and scary, but I wanted to get to the end of the series of "coasters" because I am sure there is a treat at the end.

So the treat at the end was only some candy with the promise if I do the next series of "roller coasters" and then the next I will get my treat.

I think the next book The Prince will be much easier of a ride. It has to be about Wesley. He is refered to as the Prince of Kentucky or something like that in the picture Nora sees of him and Prince Harry.

I have so many thoughts about the characters, but I have to sit with them a bit. It was intense to learn about Soren, what happened with Michael, What I don't want for Wesley, what I do want for Nora, and what happened with Nora that made her leave Soren.
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Judyblueeyes



Joined: 06 Aug 2012
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Location: Great Lakes

PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jaime wrote:
There is going to be a fourth book in the series with the title "The Mistress", and the upcoming "The Prince" will end with a big nasty cliffhanger.

I think Nora and Soren are endgame from all the info I have been piecing together. Since Wesley is my favorite I am really worried about what's going to happen with him. Soren and Nora can take care of themselves. But Wes is young and vulnerable and with his diabetes too much stress is dangerous. Sigh. I am way too concerned about this character. Maybe that's because while Nora and Soren come across as larger than life Wesley of all the characters in this series seems most like a real person to me.

http://1girl2manybooks.wordpress.com/2012/08/10/qa-with-the-author-of-the-siren-tiffany-reisz-and-giveaway/


Thanks for this I just started reading it and can't wait read it all later today. I so agree with the bloger's POV about the characters (depth) and I see she asks the questions about some of the difficult plot details and I can wait to read Tiffany Reisz's responses. Thanks a million
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Linda in sw va



Joined: 27 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

erika wrote:
[After reading the insights of posters on The Siren I wouldn't call this a romance.

A bit ot, I notice heroines becoming more antiHeroine of late. A historical reviewed here had a heroine having an affair with a married man not the hero. And of course all the Kristen Ashley heroines with their backup guys!


Erika, I hadn't noticed that. I don't mind variety of heroines but would prefer that they stick to adults for their sexual exploits. BDSM fine - between consenting adults. It's odd reading about a hero and heroine that should be in jail rather than working towards a HEA. Good thing this is fiction, these are people I would want no where near my children. My two favorite characters are Wesley and Michael, Wesley because he has a good heart and Michael is just still so vulnerable. It's for them that I keep going, they deserve a HEA but I have the feeling I am not going to be able to get through the next two as I am stalling with The Angel. I can't bear to read the sex scenes between Michael and Nora while she is 'training' him, for all this book may be labeled erotica the sex scenes are the most unsexy/unappealing I've ever forced myself to endure when reading a book. I'm going to have to do a reread of Fifty Shades just to cleanse myself of the icky and have some fun again. Laughing

For a more appealing sexually experienced heroine combined with some sexy bdsm type love scenes I would again recommend If I Were You. I would only recommend The Siren if you're looking for a book that's completely unlike something you've read before, a cross between a horror story and a twisted 'love' story between morally corrupt characters.

Linda
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Judyblueeyes



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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think The Siren did have a review here or an ad, but now I am going to say Not a Romance! The Sire I could say, it was IMO boarderline A Romance, but The Angel, i wouldn't call it a romance, but it is more than eroctica (most of the sex wasn't eroctic). I haven't read Anne Rice but people that I know that have say her stuff is dark and sexual, so maybe it is in the same class as that. I have no idea.

I still like the story, in that, I like the web of characters, all of them. I don't think they are morally corrupt, I do think they are very human characters that are going through their lifes doing what they can. I don't agree with "training" anyone but I know enough to see their point in training him so that he doesn't became a victum of someone truely evil. And I do see the difference between them and evil. I have the unfortunate occassion to hear what real Evil in this Real World looks like and what is done to children, and sorry this isn't in the same league. An almost 16 year old or 17 year old is a not much different from an 18. (NOT THAT I think it is the best thing to happen but I also don't really want any teen engaging in sex even with another teen but that is my personal preference)

I don't think I would have a problem with these characters around my children. There is no indication that these characters force or manipulate anyone into any lifestyle. In fact there is more indication that they stay to themselves. You could say Soren groomed Nora, but I think even at 15 Nora was clearly on her own path and other than mentions of their eyes meeting etc etc there doesn't seem to be much "grooming". Other than grooming her to stop stealing cars, do her school work and stay out of trouble.

Again Not Like Elena (FSoG) that not only groomed a 15 year old but engaged in a long term relationship that isolated him from his family which I don't see even close to the act Nora and Michael engaged in. And as for Christian seeing her for what she was at the end, I don't really think he got it, he sat with her drinking, if he got it he wouldn't of been sharing personal information with her. But on the same note even with Elena grooming Christian, he still made his own choices and changed when he wanted, which isn't a bite different from what Nora or Michael could do, if they wanted, so I am missing the reason for the different attitude towards the characters.
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erika



Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Linda in sw va wrote:
erika wrote:
[After reading the insights of posters on The Siren I wouldn't call this a romance.

A bit ot, I notice heroines becoming more antiHeroine of late. A historical reviewed here had a heroine having an affair with a married man not the hero. And of course all the Kristen Ashley heroines with their backup guys!


Erika, I hadn't noticed that. I don't mind variety of heroines but would prefer that they stick to adults for their sexual exploits. BDSM fine - between consenting adults. It's odd reading about a hero and heroine that should be in jail rather than working towards a HEA. Good thing this is fiction, these are people I would want no where near my children. My two favorite characters are Wesley and Michael, Wesley because he has a good heart and Michael is just still so vulnerable. It's for them that I keep going, they deserve a HEA but I have the feeling I am not going to be able to get through the next two as I am stalling with The Angel. I can't bear to read the sex scenes between Michael and Nora while she is 'training' him, for all this book may be labeled erotica the sex scenes are the most unsexy/unappealing I've ever forced myself to endure when reading a book. I'm going to have to do a reread of Fifty Shades just to cleanse myself of the icky and have some fun again. Laughing

For a more appealing sexually experienced heroine combined with some sexy bdsm type love scenes I would again recommend If I Were You. I would only recommend The Siren if you're looking for a book that's completely unlike something you've read before, a cross between a horror story and a twisted 'love' story between morally corrupt characters.

Linda


The thing is I don't mind morally corrupt heroes and they are so rare these days paired with average nice heroines.
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Linda in sw va



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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Judyblueeyes wrote:
.

I still like the story, in that, I like the web of characters, all of them. I don't think they are morally corrupt, I do think they are very human characters that are going through their lifes doing what they can.


Doing what they can, yeah I'd say that's a good way to describe it but just because they can doesn't mean they should. I do think both Soren and Nora are morally corrupt, not because of what they do behind closed doors but because of the way they both have preyed on kids with no remorse whatsoever, they both tell themselves that it's ok, that they're helping them.

Quote:
I don't agree with "training" anyone but I know enough to see their point in training him so that he doesn't became a victim of someone truly evil. And I do see the difference between them and evil. I have the unfortunate occasion to hear what real Evil in this Real World looks like and what is done to children, and sorry this isn't in the same league. An almost 16 year old or 17 year old is a not much different from an 18. (NOT THAT I think it is the best thing to happen but I also don't really want any teen engaging in sex even with another teen but that is my personal preference)


Evil is a strong word, I'd say self centered for all they think they are saviors. I will agree that it's better Soren has someone willing he can use his knife on since he enjoys it so much, better than him going out and torturing innocent victims. It's not the actual training that disgusts me between Michael and Nora, it's knowing that she first slept with him at 15 and had no remorse about taking his virginity and he is now 17 and she is what, 35? And she's still influencing him and using him sexually, again with the self delusion that there is nothing wrong with it at all. What they do with each other is one thing but when they take the young and vulnerable and play with them sexually it crosses a line.

Quote:
I don't think I would have a problem with these characters around my children. There is no indication that these characters force or manipulate anyone into any lifestyle. In fact there is more indication that they stay to themselves.


Let's see a Catholic Priest who is a sexual sadist with no respect to his vows, a wolf in priest's clothing. Soren is a fraud. Falls in love with Nora when she is 15 and has been having a secret affair with her ever since. He gives a 15 year old virgin boy who is mentally fragile to Nora for their anniversary. I learned in The Angel that he had originally promised the boy he would *meet* Nora, as a way to get him to not hurt himself for a year. When it came down to it he decided she would take his virginity . She finds out he was just 15 and sees no problem with it at all. She later goes on to train this child to be a sexual submissive, his mother seems to have stopped caring which means he is ripe for the taking so that Nora can take him away to Griffin's for the summer. Umm no way no how would I want either one of these two anywhere near my kids, their sense of right and wrong is skewed.

Granted, I have some sympathy for what these characters have gone through and Nora has her finer moments and qualities but it doesn't excuse their actions. I would like to see them redeemed but there's no redeeming if they don't see what they have done as wrong, they're very accomplished at excusing themselves.

Quote:
You could say Soren groomed Nora, but I think even at 15 Nora was clearly on her own path and other than mentions of their eyes meeting etc etc there doesn't seem to be much "grooming". Other than grooming her to stop stealing cars, do her school work and stay out of trouble.


Oh he spent years planning and preparing her and she reveals as much. He grooms her into the S&M lifestyle and whether she stands a chance at anything else in her future remains to be seen. He taught her to associate sexual pleasure with pain and control over another, after all he 'owns' her as they both say. If it truly is all she can relate to sexually than so be it, what's been done has been done, but I would like to see her have a chance at something else. Something she doesn't have to sneak around with and a way of experiencing love that doesn't manifest in bruises and welts.

Quote:
Again Not Like Elena (FSoG) that not only groomed a 15 year old but engaged in a long term relationship that isolated him from his family which I don't see even close to the act Nora and Michael engaged in. And as for Christian seeing her for what she was at the end, I don't really think he got it, he sat with her drinking, if he got it he wouldn't of been sharing personal information with her. But on the same note even with Elena grooming Christian, he still made his own choices and changed when he wanted, which isn't a bite different from what Nora or Michael could do, if they wanted, so I am missing the reason for the different attitude towards the characters.


I'm not sure what you mean by the different attitude towards the characters, who in particular? I don't see Elena in any better a light than I do Soren and to some degree Nora. Yes Christian made his own choices and changed when he was ready, he learned he could hope for and have something more. Can Nora do the same? I don't know. Michael, I don't know that either but I do know he was too young for them to get their hooks in him. Nora does have him isolated right now and even worse he doesn't have a loving family at home so that makes him all the more vulnerable to her influence, he sees her with stars in his eyes. She's taking him away to 'train' him and by doing so they are getting him out of town while Soren is being investigated. This is for their benefit and she can play around with him sexually while he's there.

IMHO, I still feel pretty much the same as when I first started reading these books, you can tell me these are flawed characters and I get that and we are all flawed and some in a more serious way than others. They are not ALL bad, they have better moments, well Nora more so than Soren from what I've seen. But just don't tell me what they're doing is OK, there is no way I can personally reconcile with that, to each their own opinion and all.

Oh and since I'm venting, now we've added incest into the mix, nice! Just when you think it can't get any worse. For the record I read part of Flowers in the Attic when I was a kid and was horrifed. I wasn't able to finish it but some of the passages I did read haunted me for years, I wished I'd never had them in my head at all. There are some things you just don't need to have ever had rolling around in your head, there are aspects to this series I feel the same way about. The blood play for one.

Linda
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"The Bookshop has a thousand books, all colors, hues and tinges, and every cover is a door that turns on magic hinges." ~ Nancy Byrd Turner


Last edited by Linda in sw va on Tue Oct 02, 2012 6:52 am; edited 1 time in total
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Linda in sw va



Joined: 27 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

erika wrote:

The thing is I don't mind morally corrupt heroes and they are so rare these days paired with average nice heroines.


I normally have a high level of tolerance for alpha/dominant/tortured heroes but Soren repulses me. I would love to see the more beta Wesley kick his @ss! You may like him better than I did though..lol

Linda
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Judyblueeyes



Joined: 06 Aug 2012
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Location: Great Lakes

PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 8:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Linda in sw va wrote:
erika wrote:

The thing is I don't mind morally corrupt heroes and they are so rare these days paired with average nice heroines.


I normally have a high level of tolerance for alpha/dominant/tortured heroes but Soren repulses me. I would love to see the more beta Wesley kick his @ss! You may like him better than I did though..lol

Linda


If you stay with the story U will get a little of that dream, plus more puzzle pieces.

You will have to ride the roller coaster through one more rough part (if I remember correctly) then you will start getting some satisfaction, but only some.

Linda I disagree with some of your views, but I understand that what we bring to the table as we read is most likely different, and therefore what we take away is different. I think we both agree, NOT A Romance, not really erotica either and frankly there isn't any hot sex in my opinion. We also I am sure agree, over my dead body with my kid. But I know why it is over my dead body with my kid is if they were in say Michaels place it would never come to that. My child wouldn't be alone while with my family, I would move heaven and earth and HAVE. But I have seen parents that don't. I also took away from Soren's hospital visit to Michael a couple of moving things. He told Micheal his confession, it doesn't get bigger than that. A kid in Mikes place knowing that he wasn't alone, but with information that could ruin Soren. Soren gave Mike his life in Mikes hands, or maybe God's if Soren said a pray first. Just as an example that is what I took from that scene.

I also didn't need the sister info, but I see how it is a piece of the over all puzzle that the 4 books will but together. P.S. i see Soren as being damaged and for him it was as a Child not older teen. I do draw a line. somethings don't bother me as much depending on a teens age because frankly not all 15-17 year olds are created equal and nothing magical happens on our 18th birthday. So for Fiction purposes I don't lose sleep over that type of stuff it is a story.
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Linda in sw va



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Judy, Soren's confession to Michael as a stand alone would have been moving but he dirtied it by then going on to 'give' him to Nora as an anniversary present and to teach her a lesson about asking age first. It's good for Michael to know he's not alone but that doesn't have to include initiating him in to the lifestyle at 15. Talking, counseling, that's what a priest and community leader should do, not use him. As they are the only adults right now that are giving him attention and the fact that he has no friends, it makes him especially vulnerable and easy prey.

We do bring our own person in to the books and it makes each reader's experience unique. I am both a mother of teenagers and I was raised Catholic and went to Catholic school until I entered high school so it hits close to home and is especially disturbing. What Soren is doing is wrong on multiple levels, it's very difficult for me as a reader to see these actions by the characters justified and I question how the author can give them this avenue. Well, to each their own and it's a good thing it's just fiction.

I am ready to have fun with a book again!

Linda
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Judyblueeyes



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Linda in sw va wrote:


I am ready to have fun with a book again!

Linda


Yes, please. I started Sophie Kinsella's Twenties Girl (i think that is the name) i need fun, light, no question about the ending being happy for EVERYONE kinda book, and I need it NOW. Nothing shocking! Shocked
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Linda in sw va



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Finally finished this one, I liked the ending!

Positive thoughts - I really liked Nora's mom.

Loved Wesley standing up to Soren and making him flinch with the truth. Kapow!

Loved Griffin telling off Michael's dad.

Liked that Nora claimed the freedom to make her own decision regarding her pregnancy.

Misc - I think the real reason Soren hasn't left the priesthood (I agree with her mother that he should) and that Nora hasn't 'let him' isn't because he's the best priest ever but because then she would have felt obligated to stay with him, if he gave it all up for her. He likely knows this so hasn't pushed.

The rest that I did not care for I have already explained in full so I won't harp on it again. I was glad there were some positive moments for me as a reader in the end.

Linda
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Judyblueeyes



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Linda in sw va wrote:
Finally finished this one, I liked the ending!

Positive thoughts - I really liked Nora's mom.

Loved Wesley standing up to Soren and making him flinch with the truth. Kapow!

Loved Griffin telling off Michael's dad.

Liked that Nora claimed the freedom to make her own decision regarding her pregnancy.

Misc - I think the real reason Soren hasn't left the priesthood (I agree with her mother that he should) and that Nora hasn't 'let him' isn't because he's the best priest ever but because then she would have felt obligated to stay with him, if he gave it all up for her. He likely knows this so hasn't pushed.

The rest that I did not care for I have already explained in full so I won't harp on it again. I was glad there were some positive moments for me as a reader in the end.

Linda


I was hoping you would enjoy the Wes/Soren scene. Wes didn't flinch he said what he wanted to say and apparently Soren heard it because of the end.

I liked all the things you liked and didn't like a lot of what you didn't like jsut not as passionately as you. Well and a few things we have gone over that didn't bug me too much at all.

I think Nora's mom was the most interesting surprise and I LOVED HER Mother SLAPPING NORA, it was too funny and so on the mark. It was so Nora actually so maybe we know where she gets that in your face gene.

I don't know if you would agree but I see The Angel as the scariest Roller Coaster Ride EVERY.
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Linda in sw va



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Judy, I too thought about the slap as - so that's where Nora gets it from, lol.

But as far as a scary roller coaster ride, roller coasters are supposed to be scary fun. This was scary disturbing, more of a tragic tale than love story.

Linda
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Judyblueeyes



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 10:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am thinking part of the new way they are marketing books is to blame for your feeling (I am hoping anyway) that this is a scary disturbing, more of a tragic tale than love story. It used to be we would get a complete story not a big story cut up into a number of books so they can call it a series. It is getting rare to have a good 800 page story, unless you are Stephen King or J.K Rowling. I think it must be because they can't consumers to part with $30 or $40 for a book. So they get us to pay by the installment plan.

So I am hoping and have faith that when this story is told it will be only somewhat tragic. I might be dreaming but I love that Tiffany Reisz can really tell a complicated story well. The subject matter is a challenge for you and me (you more than me maybe) but she does a great job of writing very complex characters, that are doing exactly what you would expect.

I was up in the middle of the night and was reading my nice little Sophie Kinsella book when in crept Nora, Soren and crew. I just keep thinking stuff over and over in my head.

I got stuck on your comment about Nora taking charge of the pregnancy issue. And I just didnít see as such a positive reason or positive step in her growth. She did take the issue into her hands, but I saw it as only because she couldnít put it at Sorenís feet. She didnít want to hurt him with fixing her mistake. (I donít feel getting pregnant was a mistake per sa as much as an over sight, she didnít think about her medication and birth control) It seems to me Nora might have an issue with not thinking things out before acting and sometimes this results in issues Soren has had to step up and fix. Like her car stealing, some issue with a story she wrote in High School, the attempted rape in college, later, Michael and who knows what else. So, I think this problem she feared would ruin them because it would put his odd interpretation of his vows to the test. (although I always scream ďwhat about adoption but that is just me)
You asked me in another post what types of books I like and I think the very short answer isÖ.I like books that donít leave me that stick in my head and turn over and over because the characters and plot are so complicated and well done that I need to think about it from so many angles. And in this series I spend time thinking about my views and why they are the way they are, and I like to look at and challenge why I feel the way I do about things that happen in a story.
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Linda in sw va



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Judyblueeyes wrote:
I am thinking part of the new way they are marketing books is to blame for your feeling (I am hoping anyway) that this is a scary disturbing, more of a tragic tale than love story. It used to be we would get a complete story not a big story cut up into a number of books so they can call it a series. It is getting rare to have a good 800 page story, unless you are Stephen King or J.K Rowling. I think it must be because they can't consumers to part with $30 or $40 for a book. So they get us to pay by the installment plan.


No, I don't think that's why, I don't mind a series in installments, in fact I like drawing it out a little.

[/quote]So I am hoping and have faith that when this story is told it will be only somewhat tragic. I might be dreaming but I love that Tiffany Reisz can really tell a complicated story well. The subject matter is a challenge for you and me (you more than me maybe) but she does a great job of writing very complex characters, that are doing exactly what you would expect. [quote]

Hmmm, let me explain the tragic aspect, as it comes across to me and I wouldn't assume this for another reader. To me it's tragic to associate love with pain, to see love in welts and bruises and Nora states many times over she does. I think it's sad because while it may be something they *do*, it's not love and if that's how they see love - well that's very sad. IMHO I think they are damaged on the inside and are confusing a substitute with the real thing. I liked Nora's mother because she wanted more for her daughter, the slap was a little bit funny but it was also very sad because it was the truth.

Quote:
I got stuck on your comment about Nora taking charge of the pregnancy issue. And I just didn'tít see as such a positive reason or positive step in her growth. She did take the issue into her hands, but I saw it as only because she couldít put it at Sorenís feet. She didn'tít want to hurt him with fixing her mistake. (I donít feel getting pregnant was a mistake per sa as much as an over sight, she didnít think about her medication and birth control)


I think the reasoning was as you suggest but also saw it as a positive step because she has been treated like a child (with sex benefits) by Soren for their entire relationship. I think she needed a taste of freedom and it had to come along in such a sad way but she got it and she made her own decision. How many times did we hear Nora say something like..please don't make me move I love my house, she hoped he wouldn't forbid this or that friendship because she'd have to go along with it, something along those lines. Suzanne learns that Soren was like a 'father' to her but what he really did was control her and still at 35 he is controlling her. Soren is the puppeteer that controls all of them. To me that is more of a tragedy than a love story.

Quote:
You asked me in another post what types of books I like and I think the very short answer isÖ.I like books that donít leave me that stick in my head and turn over and over because the characters and plot are so complicated and well done that I need to think about it from so many angles. And in this series I spend time thinking about my views and why they are the way they are, and I like to look at and challenge why I feel the way I do about things that happen in a story.


Well you are certainly in good company, I think there are many readers that feel this way. Me, I like to dip my toes into something complicated from time to time but it's not my first preference. Mainly I read to have fun, for sexy heroes and to experience something I wouldn't come across in my day to day life. In that it's unique and well written I give the author and Harlequin credit, but a little too disturbing with the use of underage kids in a sexual nature for me. That I can definitely do without. I think there is enough disturbing in real life that I don't want to take it into my free time with reading as well. It seems like the author threw in everything disturbing/uncomfortable you can into one series - incest, abuse, rape, hardcore bdsm, broken homes, suicide, a priest with broken vows and that is a sexual sadist, the sexual use of an underage boy by adults. I cry uncle! I'm not sorry I read it but it left me with a 'bad' feeling rather than the happy, giddy feeling I get when I read a really good book that thrills me.

Linda
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