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Linda in sw va
Joined: 27 Mar 2007
Posts: 4708
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 Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 9:04 am Post subject: |
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| Lee wrote: | | Again, I fail to see where any personal attacks were made. No one said that someone reading this book is perverted or immoral or bad. Just that it wasn't our cuppa, and the reasons why. And wrt my question about whether the OP was written by the author or a friend of the author, it was just a question, not an accusation. I found it interesting that both the OP and the author were students in Bath. I thought this was a discussion board where opposing opinions were welcome. |
Lee, of course opposing sides are welcome, I'm just looking at the discussion from both points of view and can see how the OP would feel like there were personal judgments being made.
I'll use Wendy's post as an example, sorry to pick on you Wendy! You of course are entitled to your opinion and there are no hard feelings!
| Quote: | Lee, my thoughts exactly.
I just can't see anything redeeming in a story about a priest getting it on with a teenage boy, regardless of future soul searching and redemption and whatever. It's still a Priest. Getting it on. With a CHILD. I can't imagine being a mother and finding this entertainment in any way. |
Ok, so I am a mother, of an 18 year old daughter and a 15 year old son. I wasn't immediately turned off by the premise of this book, in fact coming from a Catholic background and given that the relationship seems to develop over time and as the boy gets older I find it kinda intriguing. I like to think I'm a pretty great loving/protective mom but without reading the actual story I can't say if it would be offensive or not.
Linda
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"The Bookshop has a thousand books, all colors, hues and tinges, and every cover is a door that turns on magic hinges." ~ Nancy Byrd Turner |
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dick
Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 2263
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| Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 9:45 am Post subject: |
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| Seems to me we all pre-judge some things, from some kind of deep-seated antipathy based on past experiences, research, whatever. To me, there is very little difference between the rejecting of this book--from the info in the OP--than rejecting a book based on a trope that doesn't ring our bells. In rejecting that trope, we imply rejection of the taste of the person who likes it, but there you go. If the OP liked the book, it's fine with me. I wouldn't, I don't think. |
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xina
Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 6630
Location: minneapolis
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| Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 9:53 am Post subject: |
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[quote="Cora"] . Of course, the fact that it's a relationship between a priest and a person come to this priest for confession and/or counselling is problematic. There might also be an ickiness factor involved, if the age gap is very big. But going by the description alone, I'd class this as an in-love-with-a-priest story like The Thornbirds rather than view it in the light of the various sexual abuse scandals in the Catholic church in recent years.
quote]
Very good point. Actually, in The Thornbirds, the heroine (can't remember name) was 17 when they had their first encounter...which was only a kiss. As I remember she was married..a few years later, with a baby when the next encounter happened. Since the Thornbirds isn't a romance, the romance or the encounters are very PG, but still...the same idea.
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Wendy AAR
Joined: 22 May 2010
Posts: 324
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| Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 12:45 pm Post subject: |
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| catgrace wrote: | | Spoiler to reassure some of the ick points brought up earlier: The priest _immediately_ quits his profession when their relationship becomes sexual, which occurs relatively early in the book. The rest has been dealing with their lives as they separate and grow as individuals before meeting up again. |
This is what I was referencing when I called the younger male character a child. There has been a lot of back and forth about whether or not the age of the characters is an issue, and to me, that's the MAIN issue. The fact that the older character is a priest or that the relationship is gay, not so much. I wouldn't want to read a book about an 17 year old girl having a sexual relationship with her male teacher, either.
But that's my taste, and I'm not insisting everyone share it. |
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xina
Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 6630
Location: minneapolis
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| Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 1:13 pm Post subject: |
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| wendydfw wrote: | | catgrace wrote: | | Spoiler to reassure some of the ick points brought up earlier: The priest _immediately_ quits his profession when their relationship becomes sexual, which occurs relatively early in the book. The rest has been dealing with their lives as they separate and grow as individuals before meeting up again. |
This is what I was referencing when I called the younger male character a child. There has been a lot of back and forth about whether or not the age of the characters is an issue, and to me, that's the MAIN issue. The fact that the older character is a priest or that the relationship is gay, not so much. I wouldn't want to read a book about an 17 year old girl having a sexual relationship with her male teacher, either.
But that's my taste, and I'm not insisting everyone share it. |
When I first started reading romance years ago I read all of Sandra Brown's older titles. There is one called...A Kiss Remembered. The heroine and hero share a kiss when she is 16. He is her teacher. Years later...I think 10, they start their sexual relationship, but as I read the kiss thing, I remember thinking that is was strange. Not sexy. According to the reviews, others felt the same. To me, children having a relationship with someone in authority seems more like the older person is preying on the child. Gay or straight does not matter..it is the adult authority figure and the child thing that doesn't appeal to me.
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Linda in sw va
Joined: 27 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 1:45 pm Post subject: |
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When my husband was in high school there was a very handsome young teacher that started dating the pretty blonde cheerleader as soon as she graduated and turned 18. Lots of speculation there about how there must have been an attraction while she was his student, I was horrified when I first heard about it and was surprised he kept his job.
Well, he not only kept his job but went on to become the principal of my kids high school and was a basketball coach for many years. He married her and she went on to become an elementary school teacher. They also had two kids and my daughter played basketball with both their teen girls.
My point is, yeah on the surface it had an ick factor but the fact is that this went on to be a very successful relationship and they're both good people, so good for them. It's a challenge but that's part of the appeal.
I'm not bothered by large age differences, nor guardian/ward, doctor/patient, etc. I'm open minded to how the author will have the scenario play out and will make up my mind that way. Some can pull it off, some can't.
Linda
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Last edited by Linda in sw va on Fri Aug 26, 2011 1:50 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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jebe
Joined: 24 Mar 2007
Posts: 820
Location: Jersey
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| Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 1:46 pm Post subject: |
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| wendydfw wrote: | | I wouldn't want to read a book about an 17 year old girl having a sexual relationship with her male teacher, either. |
This discussion reminds me of The Thorn Birds. Seems like the same concept, but in a straight set-up. Second highest rated mini-series in television history. 
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Linda in sw va
Joined: 27 Mar 2007
Posts: 4708
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| Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 1:49 pm Post subject: |
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| jebe wrote: | | wendydfw wrote: | | I wouldn't want to read a book about an 17 year old girl having a sexual relationship with her male teacher, either. |
This discussion reminds me of The Thorn Birds. Seems like the same concept, but in a straight set-up. Second highest rated mini-series in television history. |
I actually never watched this mini series but I have that song by the Police running through my head, Don't Stand So Close to Me! 
"Don't Stand So Close To Me"
Young teacher, the subject
Of schoolgirl fantasy
She wants him so badly
Knows what she wants to be
Inside her there's longing
This girl's an open page
Book marking - she's so close now
This girl is half his age
Don't stand, don't stand so
Don't stand so close to me
Her friends are so jealous
You know how bad girls get
Sometimes it's not so easy
To be the teacher's pet
Temptation, frustration
So bad it makes him cry
Wet bus stop, she's waiting
His car is warm and dry
Don't stand, don't stand so
Don't stand so close to me
Loose talk in the classroom
To hurt they try and try
Strong words in the staffroom
The accusations fly
It's no use, he sees her
He starts to shake and cough
Just like the old man in
That book by Nabakov
Don't stand, don't stand so
Don't stand so close to me
Don't stand, don't stand so
Don't stand so close to me
Linda
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catgrace
Joined: 02 Jan 2008
Posts: 22
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| Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 2:36 pm Post subject: |
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| wendydfw wrote: |
This is what I was referencing when I called the younger male character a child. There has been a lot of back and forth about whether or not the age of the characters is an issue, and to me, that's the MAIN issue. |
That's certainly valid. There are nearly fourteen years between the characters, which seems common enough in romance (at least when the woman is younger), but even I am often uneasy with it.
Possible spoilers:
To explain about these two further: the young man initially sees the priest to confess his "sin" of homosexuality, and to seek help in dealing with it. The two begin a very wary friendship. Both aware that they are treading on uneasy ground with each other.
Long before the relationship went too far, they became personal friends, far beyond 'counselor/counseled'. They used first names with each other, spent many platonic hours together just enjoying each others' company. They talked to each other as equals, read books, watched movies or TV, and prepared meals together. This went on for months, and it was during this time that the younger turned eighteen. To me, the issue of the priest abusing his position of authority had greatly faded by this point. They were friends. |
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Lee
Joined: 27 Mar 2007
Posts: 215
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| Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 2:58 pm Post subject: |
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| The point I was trying to make, that Dick alluded to in his post, is that we all have certain tropes that we don't care to read about: adultery, abuse, forced seduction, etc. Nothing people can say about those tropes will change anyone's mind. This book is no different. And we can split hairs about age and authority positions, but let's be honest, the hook of this book is the forbidden aspect of a priest falling in love with a teenager. And the gay angle. Change the ages, change the profession, and it's just another m/m romance/erotica. Change the sexuality and it's just another romance. Those hooks were used to draw some people in. And that's fine - but it's also going to make others turn away, like me. Both opinions are perfectly valid. I don't need to be quoted other books or songs to know that some people like this sort of thing. Obviously, some people do. I'm just not one of them. |
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Linda in sw va
Joined: 27 Mar 2007
Posts: 4708
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| Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 3:24 pm Post subject: |
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| catgrace wrote: | | [Long before the relationship went too far, they became personal friends, far beyond 'counselor/counseled'. They used first names with each other, spent many platonic hours together just enjoying each others' company. They talked to each other as equals, read books, watched movies or TV, and prepared meals together. This went on for months, and it was during this time that the younger turned eighteen. To me, the issue of the priest abusing his position of authority had greatly faded by this point. They were friends. |
And this is why I think you'd need to read the book before being able to fully judge. I also tend to look at maturity level of characters rather than merely age.
Lee, I don't think the 'teenager' aspect is the hook, but I'll go along with you on the priest.
Linda
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xina
Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 6630
Location: minneapolis
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| Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 4:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Linda in sw va wrote: | [ "
Young teacher, the subject
Of schoolgirl fantasy
She wants him so badly
Knows what she wants to be
Inside her there's longing
This girl's an open page
Book marking - she's so close now
This girl is half his age
Linda |
LOL! I love this song by The Police. Actually, I remember having a student teacher when I was in high school who was very handsome. All the girls thought so.  Nothing inappropriate though.
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Lee
Joined: 27 Mar 2007
Posts: 215
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| Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 5:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Linda, The reason that the teenager aspect seemed like part of the hook to me was because otherwise you'd have another young 20-something college student searching for himself. The guy being 17 was done deliberately, IMO. There's no doubt controversy sells books, but it can also turn readers off. If you and others like the premise, good for you - I mean that sincerely. But I just thought the other side should be represented too. |
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Linda in sw va
Joined: 27 Mar 2007
Posts: 4708
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| Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 6:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Lee wrote: | | Linda, The reason that the teenager aspect seemed like part of the hook to me was because otherwise you'd have another young 20-something college student searching for himself. The guy being 17 was done deliberately, IMO. There's no doubt controversy sells books, but it can also turn readers off. If you and others like the premise, good for you - I mean that sincerely. But I just thought the other side should be represented too. |
I look at as I would look at a 'hook' as something that lures someone to pick up a book. Some of you are very focused on the age aspect but it's not what got my attention when the OP described the story. Take out the priest aspect and it's not much different than what's out there already. Young hero/heroine isn't anything new or that contraversal in the romance genre gay or straight. It's the priest aspect that gives it a 'forbidden' lure, to me anyway.
Linda
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Diana
Joined: 23 Mar 2007
Posts: 1044
Location: Washington DC
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| Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 7:17 pm Post subject: |
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I haven't been here for a few days and I'm a little surprised to see so much discussion on this book. Honestly, when I saw the OP I immediately assumed that it was the author. Just an observation. Don't know if I'm right or wrong, but authors raving about and defending their own books is out of control at Amazon and to a lesser degree at Goodreads. Quite possibly my inner cynic is wrong, but I'd hate to see AAR reader boards (safe haven!) abused. Lee asked the OP if she is the author. I'd like to see HideNothing respond.
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