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	<title>Comments on: A Few Thoughts on Foreshadowing</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.likesbooks.com/blog/Index.php?feed=rss2&#038;p=8810" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.likesbooks.com/blog/?p=8810</link>
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		<title>By: Brianna</title>
		<link>http://www.likesbooks.com/blog/?p=8810&#038;cpage=1#comment-74940</link>
		<dc:creator>Brianna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Sep 2012 23:22:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.likesbooks.com/blog/?p=8810#comment-74940</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Not the best example but Julia Quinn in the Bridgerton Series books. Specifically Colin and Penelope&#039;s relationship.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not the best example but Julia Quinn in the Bridgerton Series books. Specifically Colin and Penelope&#8217;s relationship.</p>
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		<title>By: Carrie</title>
		<link>http://www.likesbooks.com/blog/?p=8810&#038;cpage=1#comment-74319</link>
		<dc:creator>Carrie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Sep 2012 16:17:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.likesbooks.com/blog/?p=8810#comment-74319</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The villain of one book becoming the hero/heroine of another is too much for me. Susan Donovan did that with her latest series. In &quot;I Want Candy,&quot; the sister Taffy is hateful. Donovan did a good job of convincing me. When i realized she was getting her own book, I was appalled. She would never make it as a heroine after what she did.

Georgette sort of made it work, however, with the hero from These Old Shades. He is very obviously patterned on the villain in her earlier book, The Black Moth. She changed names, but kept the backstory almost intact for the Duke of Avon and several other characters. For me, that worked.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The villain of one book becoming the hero/heroine of another is too much for me. Susan Donovan did that with her latest series. In &#8220;I Want Candy,&#8221; the sister Taffy is hateful. Donovan did a good job of convincing me. When i realized she was getting her own book, I was appalled. She would never make it as a heroine after what she did.</p>
<p>Georgette sort of made it work, however, with the hero from These Old Shades. He is very obviously patterned on the villain in her earlier book, The Black Moth. She changed names, but kept the backstory almost intact for the Duke of Avon and several other characters. For me, that worked.</p>
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		<title>By: Carrie</title>
		<link>http://www.likesbooks.com/blog/?p=8810&#038;cpage=1#comment-74318</link>
		<dc:creator>Carrie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Sep 2012 16:11:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.likesbooks.com/blog/?p=8810#comment-74318</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I was going to use the example of the Harry Potter series, as well. There are clues and snippets in early books that don&#039;t become &quot;important&quot; until the last couple of books. The foreshadowing become apparent, and even more amazing, when the books are read back to back. Whatever can be said of Rowling&#039;s writing, her ability to weave a story is masterful.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was going to use the example of the Harry Potter series, as well. There are clues and snippets in early books that don&#8217;t become &#8220;important&#8221; until the last couple of books. The foreshadowing become apparent, and even more amazing, when the books are read back to back. Whatever can be said of Rowling&#8217;s writing, her ability to weave a story is masterful.</p>
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		<title>By: Leigh</title>
		<link>http://www.likesbooks.com/blog/?p=8810&#038;cpage=1#comment-74292</link>
		<dc:creator>Leigh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Sep 2012 02:49:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.likesbooks.com/blog/?p=8810#comment-74292</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote cite=&quot;comment-74281&quot;&gt;

&lt;strong&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-74281&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Susan/DC&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;: When, in one of the early Essex sisters books, Eloisa James had Josie, the youngest sister, say that she wasn’t interested in the Earl of Mayne because he was “too old for her”, I knew this meant that James would pair them off and said so in one of my posts here.Then, of course, she did pair them in a later book.That was a definite foreshadowing of a later event, even if it was supposedly an off-hand remark in the middle of a more wide-ranging conversation.

&lt;/blockquote&gt;


You know, I sort of thought the same thing, but then I thought yeah he is too old so I was a little surprised and a little not.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote cite="comment-74281">
<p><strong><a href="#comment-74281" rel="nofollow">Susan/DC</a></strong>: When, in one of the early Essex sisters books, Eloisa James had Josie, the youngest sister, say that she wasn’t interested in the Earl of Mayne because he was “too old for her”, I knew this meant that James would pair them off and said so in one of my posts here.Then, of course, she did pair them in a later book.That was a definite foreshadowing of a later event, even if it was supposedly an off-hand remark in the middle of a more wide-ranging conversation.</p>
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<p>You know, I sort of thought the same thing, but then I thought yeah he is too old so I was a little surprised and a little not.</p>
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		<title>By: Leigh</title>
		<link>http://www.likesbooks.com/blog/?p=8810&#038;cpage=1#comment-74291</link>
		<dc:creator>Leigh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Sep 2012 02:45:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.likesbooks.com/blog/?p=8810#comment-74291</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote cite=&quot;comment-74279&quot;&gt;

&lt;strong&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-74279&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Ducky&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;: I like the kind of foreshadowing where I will know only in retrospect that it was foreshadowing of something important about a character. For example: In Joanna Bourne’s Spymaster’s Lady an important spoiler about the heroine is foreshadowed in subtle clues long before the reveal. On re-reading the book it was fun for me to see all the little foreshadowing easter eggs that I missed the first time around.Unfortunately in general a lot of foreshadowing inromances is clumsy and about as subtle as a sledge hammer.

&lt;/blockquote&gt;


You know that is fun too. Because once you know to look for them after the fact, you are so impressed by the author&#039;s plotting.  

Still I don&#039;t mind when it is obvious]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote cite="comment-74279">
<p><strong><a href="#comment-74279" rel="nofollow">Ducky</a></strong>: I like the kind of foreshadowing where I will know only in retrospect that it was foreshadowing of something important about a character. For example: In Joanna Bourne’s Spymaster’s Lady an important spoiler about the heroine is foreshadowed in subtle clues long before the reveal. On re-reading the book it was fun for me to see all the little foreshadowing easter eggs that I missed the first time around.Unfortunately in general a lot of foreshadowing inromances is clumsy and about as subtle as a sledge hammer.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>You know that is fun too. Because once you know to look for them after the fact, you are so impressed by the author&#8217;s plotting.  </p>
<p>Still I don&#8217;t mind when it is obvious</p>
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		<title>By: Susan/DC</title>
		<link>http://www.likesbooks.com/blog/?p=8810&#038;cpage=1#comment-74281</link>
		<dc:creator>Susan/DC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Sep 2012 18:37:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.likesbooks.com/blog/?p=8810#comment-74281</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[When, in one of the early Essex sisters books, Eloisa James had Josie, the youngest sister, say that she wasn&#039;t interested in the Earl of Mayne because he was &quot;too old for her&quot;, I knew this meant that James would pair them off and said so in one of my posts here.  Then, of course, she did pair them in a later book.  That was a definite foreshadowing of a later event, even if it was supposedly an off-hand remark in the middle of a more wide-ranging conversation.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When, in one of the early Essex sisters books, Eloisa James had Josie, the youngest sister, say that she wasn&#8217;t interested in the Earl of Mayne because he was &#8220;too old for her&#8221;, I knew this meant that James would pair them off and said so in one of my posts here.  Then, of course, she did pair them in a later book.  That was a definite foreshadowing of a later event, even if it was supposedly an off-hand remark in the middle of a more wide-ranging conversation.</p>
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		<title>By: Ducky</title>
		<link>http://www.likesbooks.com/blog/?p=8810&#038;cpage=1#comment-74279</link>
		<dc:creator>Ducky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Sep 2012 17:53:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.likesbooks.com/blog/?p=8810#comment-74279</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I like the kind of foreshadowing where I will know only in retrospect that it was foreshadowing of something important about a character. For example: In Joanna Bourne&#039;s Spymaster&#039;s Lady an important spoiler about the heroine is foreshadowed in subtle clues long before the reveal. On re-reading the book it was fun for me to see all the little foreshadowing easter eggs that I missed the first time around.

Unfortunately in general a lot of foreshadowing in  romances is clumsy and about as subtle as a sledge hammer.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like the kind of foreshadowing where I will know only in retrospect that it was foreshadowing of something important about a character. For example: In Joanna Bourne&#8217;s Spymaster&#8217;s Lady an important spoiler about the heroine is foreshadowed in subtle clues long before the reveal. On re-reading the book it was fun for me to see all the little foreshadowing easter eggs that I missed the first time around.</p>
<p>Unfortunately in general a lot of foreshadowing in  romances is clumsy and about as subtle as a sledge hammer.</p>
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		<title>By: Leigh</title>
		<link>http://www.likesbooks.com/blog/?p=8810&#038;cpage=1#comment-74185</link>
		<dc:creator>Leigh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Sep 2012 22:34:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.likesbooks.com/blog/?p=8810#comment-74185</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote cite=&quot;comment-74178&quot;&gt;

&lt;strong&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-74178&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;willaful&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;: Lora Leigh’s foreshadowing always falls flat for me. She sets up interesting situations that lead to me to expect interesting stuff that never happens. Plus, she retcons a lot.Linda Howard is another one that comes to mind, though perhaps foreshadowing isn’t the right word. But her heroes, introduced in other books, generally undergo personality changes when they get their own books.Brockmann has always worked for me. It’s agony, but enjoyable agony.

&lt;/blockquote&gt;

While I don&#039;t read Lora Leigh - I know what you are talking about.  There are several authors that create a great hook but just don&#039;t deliver.  And I haven&#039;t been able to figure out why.  Is it my expectations?  Do I read too much into a simple scenario?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote cite="comment-74178">
<p><strong><a href="#comment-74178" rel="nofollow">willaful</a></strong>: Lora Leigh’s foreshadowing always falls flat for me. She sets up interesting situations that lead to me to expect interesting stuff that never happens. Plus, she retcons a lot.Linda Howard is another one that comes to mind, though perhaps foreshadowing isn’t the right word. But her heroes, introduced in other books, generally undergo personality changes when they get their own books.Brockmann has always worked for me. It’s agony, but enjoyable agony.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>While I don&#8217;t read Lora Leigh &#8211; I know what you are talking about.  There are several authors that create a great hook but just don&#8217;t deliver.  And I haven&#8217;t been able to figure out why.  Is it my expectations?  Do I read too much into a simple scenario?</p>
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		<title>By: willaful</title>
		<link>http://www.likesbooks.com/blog/?p=8810&#038;cpage=1#comment-74178</link>
		<dc:creator>willaful</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Sep 2012 20:03:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.likesbooks.com/blog/?p=8810#comment-74178</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Lora Leigh&#039;s foreshadowing always falls flat for me. She sets up interesting situations that lead to me to expect interesting stuff that never happens. Plus, she retcons a lot.

Linda Howard is another one that comes to mind, though perhaps foreshadowing isn&#039;t the right word. But her heroes, introduced in other books, generally undergo personality changes when they get their own books.

Brockmann has always worked for me. It&#039;s agony, but enjoyable agony.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lora Leigh&#8217;s foreshadowing always falls flat for me. She sets up interesting situations that lead to me to expect interesting stuff that never happens. Plus, she retcons a lot.</p>
<p>Linda Howard is another one that comes to mind, though perhaps foreshadowing isn&#8217;t the right word. But her heroes, introduced in other books, generally undergo personality changes when they get their own books.</p>
<p>Brockmann has always worked for me. It&#8217;s agony, but enjoyable agony.</p>
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		<title>By: Leigh</title>
		<link>http://www.likesbooks.com/blog/?p=8810&#038;cpage=1#comment-74165</link>
		<dc:creator>Leigh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Sep 2012 15:44:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.likesbooks.com/blog/?p=8810#comment-74165</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote cite=&quot;comment-74160&quot;&gt;

&lt;strong&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-74160&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;ell&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;: Your post brings to mind a couple of things.
First is Suzanne Brockman’s spending literally years teasing her readers about Max and Gina. For me, that went on way, way too long, before she finally got to their story. Of course, I might have felt more forgiving about the whole thing if their story had been ( a lot ) better. I think authors can only carry the tease along so far before it stops being suspenseful and just becomes obnoxious.The second thing is this….if the author is going to use a character as a villain in one book, she can’t turn around and use the same character as the hero of another book without some serious foreshadowning of change, or growth, or something. Anthing else feels like cheating….

&lt;/blockquote&gt;


What an excellent point. I love it when authors can make that switch because it is such a great example of character growth. However so many authors think that all they need to do is have the hero/heroine have an epiphany and we as reader will accept the completely new characterization without a qualm.

Like Maggie, I don&#039;t want to belabor Dark of Night but Dave&#039;s change from a nerd to having SEAL like capabilities was very jarring. 

One example that worked for me was the transformation of  Leopold Dautry, the  Duke of Villiers (Eloisa James).  The long illness and the fact that he faced death several times made it believable.

And completely agree about the tease.  Unless the writer is facing serious writer&#039;s block then it shouldn&#039;t go on for years.  And if she is facing writer&#039;s block, then don&#039;t bring up the character over and over whetting the reader&#039;s appetite.  I quit Nalini Singh and that was one of the reason’s why. 
 
I get tired of author’s introducing a teenager as a love interest and they saying oh, they have to grow up. But then I am not a patient person (grin)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote cite="comment-74160">
<p><strong><a href="#comment-74160" rel="nofollow">ell</a></strong>: Your post brings to mind a couple of things.<br />
First is Suzanne Brockman’s spending literally years teasing her readers about Max and Gina. For me, that went on way, way too long, before she finally got to their story. Of course, I might have felt more forgiving about the whole thing if their story had been ( a lot ) better. I think authors can only carry the tease along so far before it stops being suspenseful and just becomes obnoxious.The second thing is this….if the author is going to use a character as a villain in one book, she can’t turn around and use the same character as the hero of another book without some serious foreshadowning of change, or growth, or something. Anthing else feels like cheating….</p>
</blockquote>
<p>What an excellent point. I love it when authors can make that switch because it is such a great example of character growth. However so many authors think that all they need to do is have the hero/heroine have an epiphany and we as reader will accept the completely new characterization without a qualm.</p>
<p>Like Maggie, I don&#8217;t want to belabor Dark of Night but Dave&#8217;s change from a nerd to having SEAL like capabilities was very jarring. </p>
<p>One example that worked for me was the transformation of  Leopold Dautry, the  Duke of Villiers (Eloisa James).  The long illness and the fact that he faced death several times made it believable.</p>
<p>And completely agree about the tease.  Unless the writer is facing serious writer&#8217;s block then it shouldn&#8217;t go on for years.  And if she is facing writer&#8217;s block, then don&#8217;t bring up the character over and over whetting the reader&#8217;s appetite.  I quit Nalini Singh and that was one of the reason’s why. </p>
<p>I get tired of author’s introducing a teenager as a love interest and they saying oh, they have to grow up. But then I am not a patient person (grin)</p>
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